If it turns out that Virginia did all the writing and Bob was just her literary beard, you heard it here and I claim firsts! 
It’s a lot more possible that Leslyn wrote some of the early works, or at least collaborated on them. No proof (such as drafts in her handwriting, or letters to that effect) exists, though. But of the three, she was the literate and talented one, and she even acted as RAH’s agent for a while.
I am, actually, one work at a time and as the opportunities come up. But this is JC’s thread and I don’t want to tromp all over every sub-thread. Much of what I could add is also kind of esoteric and would mean little to an audience that’s still got the basics of a work to kick around and think about.
But I manage to find something to add to every work discussion and I can carry it as far as anyone wants to hear. 
Not entirely. He’s presented as being pretty damn sexist (granted that was not unusual for the time).
One of the things I found interesting about the book is that it’s one of the few times that RAH presents religion as a good thing. The book is generally favorable to the Fosterite Church with [del]RAH[/del] Harshaw going on at some length about why it can be seen as positive. He’s pretty harsh on the “traditional” Christian religions, but (other than the back-room fighting and the participation in the final martyrdom) considers Foster to have fixed many of those problems. Indeed, two of the “feminine” ideal characters (Dawn and Patti) are Fosterites who embrace Mike’s philosophy.
Patti is the secondary character who interests me. RAH seems to have an interesting relationship with her. There are (semi) derogatory comments about her (the snake handling and the full body tattooing are both presented in ambiguous almost negative tones), but yet she is presented as one of the most open-minded people in the book and, in spite of having no children of her own, is presented as the “ideal mother” in Mike’s harem (along with Jill/Dawn - the “ideal wife”).
No, it isn’t!
Jubal’s view of the the Fosterites was positive???
Not the way I read it. Jubal recognises and respects Foster as an effective confidence trickster who gave the marks what they wanted. He has no respect for the Fosterite Church (or any other church) as a religion.
I don’t think the references to Patti’s snakes or tattoos are derogatory - they are just Jubal recognising her particular psychological type - the very need to “give” that makes the “ideal mother”.
Come on, don’t tease! State your case. If you don’t want to de-rail JC’s threat start your own. Plenty of electrons to go round…
The 60s were the Golden Age for me. Zelazny, Delany, Silverberg, Ellison, LeQuin, Lafferty, Brunner, Sturgeon, Aldiss, Moorcock, Disch, Russ, Wilhelm, Spinrad, Cordwainer Smith. Those are just off the top of my head so I’m leaving some out.
Clarke was never literary. Bradbury was the best stylist the field has ever seen, but his heyday was the 50s.
You don’t have to tell me about Heinlein worship. I was at the 1976 Worldcon, were Heinlein was Guest of Honor and people vied to carry him on their shoulders so his feet would never have to touch the dust. That was also the one in which his GoH speech turned that worshiping crowd against him to loud boos. I stood on the sidelines both times and just gawked. Which I will continue to do here, since I have no idea of what “Fosterites” might be.
It’s not a matter of knowing one or two Things that I’m hoarding - I’ve written millions of words about Heinlein and his works, mostly online and over the last 30 years. What I’ve learned is that every discussion finds its level - from noobs who have read a few books making their first discoveries beyond the works to grizzled elders in their second decade of feuding over splinter issues. The threads are best when they stay within a few sigmas of their audience’s interest, and die when invaded by someone of a different level.
This is a good thread, with a good engine and a good purpose, and I contribute things that occur to me that are relevant to each work and in line with the level of the discussion. (Occasionally, I slip into Snarky Grizzled Elder mode, as above, and it’s misunderstood.)
I’m too tired to start anything new, but I will say that I can’t resist any thread with “Heinlein” in the title, even this weary…
No, I thought when he was talking to ?Jill? prior to attending Mike’s first service that he basically said that the church fulfilled a need for a lot of people and did so in a less harmful way. It basically gave people an excuse (or reason) to feel good about themselves and have fun and didn’t ask that much in return. I could be misremembering. I’ll have to try to check the text tonight.
Again, could be me, but I read the comments as being “poor Patti, she can’t help it, but we love her anyway”. It seemed to me that they (Jubal and Ben) saw them as a flaw.
It’s been awhile, but I’m assuming they’re the Church of the New Revelation in SIASL.
Wait, weren’t the Fosterites the cult that got their members to name the cult in their will and then murdered them? That hardly seemed like a positive depiction to me. Someone tells me when I’m going to Heaven, I’m calling the cops on them.
“You don’t understand, Junior. They’ve got there own system up here. Sure, you can put in for an action against the ones who retired you, but I’m telling you it’ll be turned down. You don’t know how the system works yet.”
If you do try it again, I’d recommend the restored, post 1991 edition. IMO, it just flows better.
They did have the “called to Heaven” thing, but IIRC the callees agreed to it (even asked for it) and were happy about it. I would call it assisted suicide more than murder.
Jubal definitely wasn’t making derogatory comments about her tattoos – he speaks lovingly of his tattoed Japanese friend. I can’t think of anything Ben said that was at all derogatory. I think you’re reading your own feelings into this.
Not that you could know, but I have one tattoo and I already plans for another. Not to mention that I think tats are hot. So it ain’t that. But it may be an overly sensitive read of the text.
Time for the Stars
Volume XIX of The Virginia Edition
One of the juveniles Heinlein wrote for Scribners, Time for the Stars was published in 1956 between Hugo winner Double Star and Citizen of the Galaxy. It’s easy to think of TFtS as one of the weaker juveniles caught between two pretty damn good novels.
Time For the Stars postulates that identical twins - some of them - can communicate through telepathy and that this talent operates in excess - or outside - the speed of light limits that control space travel and interstellar communications. This allows Earth to send out slower-than-light ships that travel at relativistic speeds to report back to home in a timely manner. Well and good.
The story then sends one of a pair of twins - Tom and Pat - out on their merry way. There’s some exploration and other planets and such. Interestingly, though, this really isn’t a story of interstellar travel and new worlds and such. Once the story leaves Earth it becomes almost claustrophobically ensconced within the ship Lewis & Clark. Almost every event of note occurs there and even the ones that don’t are generally seen from the ship.
In the end, the story takes place largely inside of Tom Bartlett’s head. It’s written in first person as he thinks about himself, his situation and his relationship with his world and the people around it. This is far more than a standard science fiction tale…this is a personal growth story with some serious character study within it.
Still, this one stands out from most of the juveniles in how the main character is portrayed. Tom is a twin - like a lot of characters are in this novel. What makes him special in Heinlein lore is that he’s a protagonist who is clearly a beta-male in his relationship with his twin, Pat. Not only that but he knows it. There’s a whole bit there in the beginning of the book where Tom complains that Pat is always the winner in their relationship.
However, there’s real character growth for Tom during the book. During his time on board the Lewis & Clark, Tom finds time to examine his own life and behavior and decides there’s no reason for him to be such a passive actor in his life. Even his failures - not being able to win a girl, failing to save his Uncle Steve from aliens and so forth - have him learning and acting over time. Tom finds the time to both observe himself as well as others and to apply lessons from their own behavior to himself. There’s a lot to be said for that.
It is clear - to me, at least - that Time for the Stars is a book that shows Heinlein again chafing at the limitations placed on him by writing for the juvenile market. However, unlike the juvenile rebellion of ‘John Thomases’ in The Star Beast or hiding a black character in Tunnel in the Sky, in Time For the Stars Heinlein simply wrote a different kind of book than he’d written in the past. One without much action, but with some science - I’m unsure whether any novel previous had time dilation effects at such a front and center position - and a lot of introspection out of the main character. It’s as if RAH is saying to his developing audience (presumably adolescent males) ‘Yes, enjoy yourself. Have adventures. But don’t let that stop you from thinking about who you are and what you’re doing’. That’s a worthwhile effort in and of itself. Buried as the basis of an apparently juvenile novel that’s quite the good thing.
Note: I’ve been told in the past that Heinlein blew the science in terms of how relativity is handled here. I admit, I don’t understand how. Anyone who wishes to educate, please do so.
Books Completed:
Vol 1: I Will Fear No Evil
Vol 3: Starship Troopers
Vol 5: The Door Into Summer
Vol 8: Stranger in a Strange Land
Vol 9: How to Be a Politician
Vol 10: Rocket Ship Galileo
Vol 11: Space Cadet
Vol 14: Between Planets
Vol 17: The Star Beast
Vol 18: Tunnel in the Sky
Vol 19: Time For the Stars
Vol 20: Citizen of the Galaxy
Vol 22: The Future History of Robert Heinlein Vol. I
Vol 23: The Future History of Robert Heinlein Vol. II
Vol 24: Friday
Vol 26: Job: A Comedy of Justice
Vol 30: Sixth Column
Vol 32: Creating a Genre (short stories)
Vol 35: Glory Road
Vol 36: The Puppet Masters
Vol 44: Screen Writing of Robert A. Heinlein Vol. I
Up next: Time Enough for Love - which I’ll do in pieces.
Cool write up. It was never one of my favorites but I read it several time.
I’ve heard the same thing about the science, and had the same bafflement. Telepathy is instantaneous according to the book.
Since you probably heard that from me, I’ll sum up. Relativity starts with the premise that there is no preferred reference frame. Everything else is built up from that. One of the specific results you can derive from that is the time dilation equations. What Heinlein did, was he took the time dilation equations, and used them to describe a world with a preferred reference frame, thus missing the entire point of them.