# On the brownshirtedness of NYC protesters: An update in the wake of the RNC. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 13, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094 "2005-04-13T05:36:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/1 "2005-04-13T05:36:41Z")
In the halcyon days of summer 2004, when intelligent people still hoped and believed that America’s worst-ever President might also be a one-term President, the Republicans held a little shin-dig in New York City to nominate their guy for a second term, and to rub the liberal city’s nose in “compassionate” conservatism. We got some interesting reports of the Republican National Convention, and of the protests surrounding it, from multiple news outlets and also from some of our own Dopers, who either live in New York, or who made the journey there for the occasion. Most of the tales, both anecdotal and in the media, told of largely-peaceful protests encompassing a wide variety of American citizens, and not just the unwashed ne’er-do-wells that the news cameras tend to focus on at such gatherings. But, of course, some of our conservative colleagues begged to differ, making much of small or isolated incidents in an attempt to paint all liberals or Democrats with the brush of violence and extralegal and illegal activity. Perhaps the plainest statement of this position came from **Shodan** in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=274605). He provided us, in post #43, with some statistics, and posed a question: > [@Shodan](#): > > Not to hijack the thread, but I wanted to contrast some other figures of the DNC vs. the RNC conventions. > > Number of arrests of protestors against the DNC (in Boston, a traditionally Democratic town):Five. > > Number of arrests of protestors against the RNC (in New York City, a traditionally Democratic town): 1,800. > > Number of attempted disruptions of Kerry’s keynote address: Zero. > > Number of attempted disruptions of Bush’s keynote address: Two. > > Question for debate: Which party tends more to the use of brownshirt tactics? Discuss. Well, some people did indeed attempt to discuss the issue, pointing out the problems of making a direct comparison, and also pointing out that a goodly proportion of the anti-DNC protesters in Boston were also, in fact, disaffected Democrats, liberals, and leftists. When **Shodan** was asked to clarify his question, he responded, in post #64, with the following: > [@Shodan](#): > > I was wondering if the board had any thoughts about the huge disparity between the parties in their willingness to use apparently illegal tactics. Why is one side so much more disruptive than the other? > > One side, in other words, seems to be willing to allow the other to present its case. The other, apparently, is not. Why is one side so afraid to let the other be heard that they are willing to break the law (it would seem) to stop it? > > It is a distinction between the RNC and DNC conventions I found interesting. Although, as I mentioned, it is more a topic for debate than a question with a simple yes-or-no answer. Well, even at the time the question was asked, it presented a rather simplistic and poorly thought out set of problems, and evidenced very little except a desire to be inflammatory. But that’s by the by. The problem with stories like this is that everyone reads them while they’re hot, and a lot of people never find out how everything turns out in the end. Well, in case anyone left the post-convention period in the belief that **Shodan** and his ilk had made a valid general point, i thought it worth pointing out that yesterday’s [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/12/nyregion/12video.html) might throw some new light on the issue ([alternative link](http://boston.indymedia.org/otherpress/display/965/index.php) to the same story, for those not registered with the _Times_). According to the _Times’_ story: > [@](#): > > Dennis Kyne put up such a fight at a political protest last summer, the arresting officer recalled, it took four police officers to haul him down the steps of the New York Public Library and across Fifth Avenue. > > “We picked him up and we carried him while he squirmed and screamed,” the officer, Matthew Wohl, testified in December. “I had one of his legs because he was kicking and refusing to walk on his own.” > > Accused of inciting a riot and resisting arrest, Mr. Kyne was the first of the 1,806 people arrested in New York last summer during the Republican National Convention to take his case to a jury. But one day after Officer Wohl testified, and before the defense called a single witness, the prosecutor abruptly dropped all charges. > > During a recess, the defense had brought new information to the prosecutor. A videotape shot by a documentary filmmaker showed Mr. Kyne agitated but plainly walking under his own power down the library steps, contradicting the vivid account of Officer Wohl, who was nowhere to be seen in the pictures. Nor was the officer seen taking part in the arrests of four other people at the library against whom he signed complaints. I’ve suggested above that **Shodan** blew a few incidents out of proportion in order to make a sweeping generalization. In case you think i’m doing the same thing, and the Kyne’s case was unique, it’s worth looking at a few other aspects of the story: > [@](#): > > Among them was Alexander Dunlop, who said he was arrested while going to pick up sushi. > > Last week, he discovered that there were two versions of the same police tape: the one that was to be used as evidence in his trial had been edited at two spots, removing images that showed Mr. Dunlop behaving peacefully. When a volunteer film archivist found a more complete version of the tape and gave it to Mr. Dunlop’s lawyer, prosecutors immediately dropped the charges and said that a technician had cut the material by mistake. > > \ > > Moreover, many of the tapes lack index and time markings, so cuts in the tape are not immediately apparent. > > That was a problem in the case of Mr. Dunlop, who learned that his tape had been altered only after Ms. Clancy found another version of the same tape. Mr. Dunlop had been accused of pushing his bicycle into a line of police officers on the Lower East Side and of resisting arrest, but the deleted parts of the tape show him calmly approaching the police line, and later submitting to arrest without apparent incident. The _Times_ website also has a video (link on the right of the page) showing the video relating to Kyne and Dunlop’s arrests, and how starkly it contrasted with police testimony. The link also shows the difference between the complete footage of Dunlop’s arrest, and the edited version presented by the DA’s office. Altogether: > [@](#): > > Of the 1,670 cases that have run their full course, 91 percent ended with the charges dismissed or with a verdict of not guilty after trial. Many were dropped without any finding of wrongdoing, but also without any serious inquiry into the circumstances of the arrests, with the Manhattan district attorney’s office agreeing that the cases should be “adjourned in contemplation of dismissal.” In case anyone be mistaken, this thread is not a pitting of **Shodan**. All he demonstrated by his remarks was a failure to make logical comparisons, and an inability to understand the difference between an arrest and a conviction. I have just used his quotes to stand as examples of a more general conservative attitude. I simply thought it was worth noting the circumstances surrounding these dismissals, and making what i think is the rather uncontroversial point that those demonstraters now appear rather somewhat less brownshirted than some would have us believe. If there’s anything worth pitting here, it’s police officers who are apparently willing to give testimony that is not only proven by video evidence to be false, but that actually claims direct knowledge about arrests at which the testifying officer was apparently not even present. And a DA’s office that is apparently willing to edit video tapes to excise material that offers direct support to the accused person’s defence. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/2 "2005-04-13T05:54:15Z")
Yeah, that’s pretty much S.O.P. for protest cops. I was once privileged to be a witness in the criminal trial of Jaggi Singh, one of our nation’s premier shit disturbers. We had attended a protest that was violently broken up by riot police; he had been arrested. A sequence of police officers gallantly took the stand, swearing on the Bible that they had seen him, specifically, committing certain illegal acts. Of course, there was testimony from other protesters (including myself) who had been there at various times when he wasn’t doing those acts. There was also police videotape of him not doing those acts (the videotape dwelt on him for much of its length). He defended himself. The jury acquitted him. (Interestingly, some time after the protest in question, Jaggi was participating in the “green-zone” - authorized - protest in Quebec City in April 2001 when he was abruptly arrested and held without bail for the duration of the protest, accused of possessing a weapon – a catapult designed to fire teddy bears – that had been created by an entirely different activist group and was being used in an entirely different neighbourhood.) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/3 "2005-04-13T11:48:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Altogether:In case anyone be mistaken, this thread is not a pitting of **Shodan**. All he demonstrated by his remarks was a failure to make logical comparisons, and an inability to understand the difference between an arrest and a conviction. I have just used his quotes to stand as examples of a more general conservative attitude. You were going real good until this point. “I’m not going to PIT Shodan, but let me just call him illogical and stupid.” It is perfectly logical to use arrest rates to discuss events, generally speaking we do not expect the police to arrest people willy nilly and arrest rates are often used in the media. If that assumption is proven wrong, then we can alter our discussion to fit the new facts. And I really don’t get how this is a “conservative” attitude. He had information on the arrest rates, and used it in the argument, damn conservatives! There is zero reason to claim that Shodan is illogical or stupid here. Underinformed, perhaps, but that’s when you give people of the facts, not call them names. Is there a reason you’re pitting him instead adding this info to the debate? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/4 "2005-04-13T11:53:52Z")
Oh, for Og’s sake, I didn’t even look at the timestamp for the thread, it was in September! You’re actually using him as an example when the only available information at the time WAS arrests? I guess we can’t discuss crime at any big event like this until 6 months later when it’s all brought through the court. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/5 "2005-04-13T11:54:28Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You were going real good until this point. “I’m not going to PIT Shodan, but let me just call him illogical and stupid.” It is perfectly logical to use arrest rates to discuss events, generally speaking we do not expect the police to arrest people willy nilly and arrest rates are often used in the media. If that assumption is proven wrong, then we can alter our discussion to fit the new facts. And I really don’t get how this is a “conservative” attitude. He had information on the arrest rates, and used it in the argument, damn conservatives! > > There is zero reason to claim that Shodan is illogical or stupid here. Underinformed, perhaps, but that’s when you give people of the facts, not call them names. > > Is there a reason you’re pitting him instead adding this info to the debate? Is there a reason you’re putting words in mhendo’s metaphorical mouth that he didn’t say, oh prince of poor paraphrasing? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/6 "2005-04-13T12:04:28Z")
“All he (Shodan) demonstrated by his remarks was a failure to make logical comparisons, and an inability to understand the difference between an arrest and a conviction.” Those are mhendo’s words. Let me strain my reading comprehension and parse this out: Shodan demonstrated a failure to make logical comparisons. Shodan demonstrated an inability to understand the difference between arrest and conviction. Apparently, that isn’t insulting Shodan. It’s really not a comment at all about Shodan, somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/7 "2005-04-13T12:06:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > “All he (Shodan) demonstrated by his remarks was a failure to make logical comparisons, and an inability to understand the difference between an arrest and a conviction.” Those are mhendo’s words. Let me strain my reading comprehension and parse this out: > Shodan demonstrated a failure to make logical comparisons. > Shodan demonstrated an inability to understand the difference between arrest and conviction. > > Apparently, that isn’t insulting Shodan. It’s really not a comment at all about Shodan, somehow. Well. at least you and Shodan can share a love of intellectual dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/8 "2005-04-13T12:08:15Z")
Please, feel free to tell me what that quote actually, honestly, means. I’m feeling especially stupid today. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/9 "2005-04-13T12:09:04Z")
I don’t read the OP as insulting to **Shodan** at all. Rather, it raises a valid point: at the time, available evidence invited certain inferences, which were argued strongly by their proponents. Now, based on new evidence, it seems those inferences were not solid, and we learn from this both the error of those inferences and the risk inherent in forming an opinion without all the facts. Assuming the New York Times’ accounts are valid and representative of the whole, then I’d say **mhendo** is making a very valid point. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/10 "2005-04-13T12:34:54Z")
Well, 3-1 against so far, maybe I am reading a bit too much into it. mhendo’s point about arrest/conviction is definitely valid, no question there. If Shodan takes exception to the OP, he can defend himself, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/11 "2005-04-13T12:39:01Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Last week, he discovered that there were two versions of the same police tape: the one that was to be used as evidence in his trial had been edited at two spots, removing images that showed Mr. Dunlop behaving peacefully. When a volunteer film archivist found a more complete version of the tape and gave it to Mr. Dunlop’s lawyer, prosecutors immediately dropped the charges and said that a technician had cut the material by mistake. In an honestly run country, somebody in the NYPD would be sweating bullets praying that this the-dog-ate-my-homework excuse would suffice to keep him out of prison. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/12 "2005-04-13T12:40:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Rather, it raises a valid point: at the time, available evidence invited certain inferences, which were argued strongly by their proponents. Now, based on new evidence, it seems those inferences were not solid, and we learn from this both the error of those inferences and the risk inherent in forming an opinion without all the facts. While I agree strongly with you in the above, Bricker, I’m not so sure about the below: > [@](#): > > I don’t read the OP as insulting to Shodan at all. Rather, it appears to me that **mhendo** went _well_ out of his way to make several unnecessary pointed references to Shodan - none of which are sympathetic to him for relying on the best data available at the time. The comments referencing Shodan personally are actually quite disparaging. I mean, a guy does some research, posits a theory, and supports it by citing generally accepted contemporary resources. Isn’t that exactly what we’re supposed to be doing in GD? It’s the incessant cry **I** hear from all and sundry. It’s not Shodan’s fault the contemporary data turned out to be skewed through an _unpredictable_ dynamic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/13 "2005-04-13T12:54:34Z")
Did I just use the word “valid” three times? Sheesh. My internal thesarus must need more coffee. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/14 "2005-04-13T13:10:27Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > In an honestly run country, somebody in the NYPD would be sweating bullets praying that this the-dog-ate-my-homework excuse would suffice to keep him out of prison. If nothing else, this should give death penalty proponents some pause. A DA can alter evidence to secure a conviction, and face no consequences for doing so. If said DA is willing to do this in a long-forgotten case of trespassing, I imagine he’d do so in a high profile murder case. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/15 "2005-04-13T13:22:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Did I just use the word “valid” three times? > > Sheesh. My internal thesarus must need more coffee. Twice is redundant. Thrice is artistic. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/16 "2005-04-13T13:24:53Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > While I agree strongly with you in the above, Bricker, I’m not so sure about the below: > > Rather, it appears to me that **mhendo** went _well_ out of his way to make several unnecessary pointed references to Shodan - none of which are sympathetic to him for relying on the best data available at the time. The comments referencing Shodan personally are actually quite disparaging. I mean, a guy does some research, posits a theory, and supports it by citing generally accepted contemporary resources. Isn’t that exactly what we’re supposed to be doing in GD? It’s the incessant cry **I** hear from all and sundry. It’s not Shodan’s fault the contemporary data turned out to be skewed through an _unpredictable_ dynamic. Well, I’m uncomfortable with involved **Shodan** directly in the discussion myself the idea that this was ‘unpredictable’ is sort of naive, in my opinion. I think it’s pretty well established that such news ‘bullet items’ as arrests and attendance counts are, at this point, expected to be _wildly_ inaccurate during and immediately following an event like this. So even introducing them as a point in debate is skating a fine line of asking fate to bite you in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/17 "2005-04-13T13:34:53Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > So even introducing them as a point in debate is skating a fine line of asking fate to bite you in the ass. I think you can use this sort of info in a debate, especially if it’s the only available info. In the next debate like this one, the opposition can bring up the 90% dismissal rate as another data point. Of course, you probably shouldn’t use it to call your opponents brownshirts, either. Bricker, I don’t know how many times I’ve gone over a post I’m ready to send to see the same word repeated over and over. Annoying as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/18 "2005-04-13T13:52:55Z")
Well, just FTR, I am a NYC Liberal Dem and today, I am wearing a brown shirt. There are all kinds of examples of a news story that makes it big for one part of it and that part gives a particular impression of that event, only that latter events show this to be otherwise and this more boring part of the story isn’t covered as well. (God there was this woman in the news a week or so ago, Terri something? What was her name?) The NYC police had a policy of arrest everyone you can, hold them for as long as you can and worry about it later when the world isn’t watching. I think it’s great that the prosecutors are dropping cases and it would be great if the cops that lied under oath are held accountable. But from watching the news at the time, I can see where people would get the idea that “Liberals” = rabble rousers. I remember a story on GMA in October of 2004. They were talking about people stealing election signs from yards. They talked about how both sides were doing it. Some people had caught people on tape stealing the signs. Now for some reason the video montage of sign thiefs had about a 10 to 1 ratio of people stealing Bush signs to people stealing Kerry signs. So if you just saw the video, Kerry supporters looked like jerks and the supporters of Bush looked like saints, but the audio said the problem was equal. ---
**Author:** ![Twin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@Twin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twin)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/19 "2005-04-13T13:53:08Z")
I’m not sure what this whole thing proves. If 91% of the convictions were ended with not guilty, that still leaves 9% that weren’t. 9% of 1670 is around 150. That is still 30 times more than the 5 arrested at Boston. In addition, given the recent throwings of [pies](http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041022-110747-8988r.htm) , [pies](http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/235034-8678-102.html) , and more [pies](http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/234061-9901-009.html) not to mention [salad dressing](http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/01/buchanan.attacked.ap/) at conservative speakers, I would say brownshirt tactics are alive and well on the left. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094/20 "2005-04-13T14:02:05Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > If nothing else, this should give death penalty proponents some pause. A DA can alter evidence to secure a conviction, and face no consequences for doing so. If said DA is willing to do this in a long-forgotten case of trespassing, I imagine he’d do so in a high profile murder case. This worries me far more then whether the OP did or did not disparage **Shodan** , or whether the DNC or the RNC was picketed harder (given that the incumbent _Republican_ was so controversial, I’d expect more Democrat douchebags to come out of the woodwork then Republican assholes–the Democrats had more to protest). The charges being dropped isn’t enough. How about investigations and possible criminal charges against the lying shitbag officers? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-brownshirtedness-of-nyc-protesters-an-update-in-the-wake-of-the-rnc/299094.md?page=2)