# On the clock - 2008 NFL Draft **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 22, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429 "2008-04-22T18:40:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/421 "2008-04-28T15:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] I really wonder what was going on all that time in Dallas. I know he had a severe knee injury, but could it really have taken him five years to recover? [/QUOTE] No, but it took time for the Cowboy’s QB spot to recover. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/422 "2008-04-28T16:08:11Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Not fantasies at all - Kruczek invited them back before camp every year, as did O’Leary his first year. Remember how we were starting three true freshman on the line in 2005? That was a simple lack of warm bodies - they were the last three healthy interior linemen on the team. [/QUOTE] Inviting them to camp does not equate to offering them starting jobs. Do you remember the scene in Rudy where the coaches explain what the scout team is for? And my memory is that in 2004 UCF was playing freshmen everywhere because O’Leary was moving in his guys. In 2005 we were a bowl team. Sorry, I just don’t buy the idea that a 28 yo ex-player is going to walk in off the street and start at a 1A program. Sounds like the guy I knew who swore that he would have made the NBA if he hadn’t quit college. Uh huh. > [@](#): > > I can’t fault Jacksonville for not taking Taylor; he’ll surely want a contract extension, and how much can you invest in a pure speed rusher who’ll be 34 by Week 1? Why “surely?” I think he’s a smart guy who knows he doesn’t have seven years left – I suspect he wants a chance to win (and his owner thinks he should get it) more than the money. (Of course, being a smart, handsome, articulate guy with good post-football prospects, Taylor also knows the monetary value of winning.) More important, the question is where your team lies in the success cycle. Taylor obviously only has a very few seasons left as a top player; but the Jags are a top-five team _right now_, and they had a chance to add a player who could help get them from top-five to top one. Their future is now, exacly as the Bucs’ was when they got Rice. They won a trophy with him; the fact that Rice got old later is by-the-way. The irony: My guess is Taylor could have been had for less than they spend on the rookie. > [@](#): > > Woodson to the Giants makes great sense. I love the Hefty Lefty too, but Lorenzen has shown he’s not really anything more than an emergency quarterback. Woodson, on the other hand, can develop into a capable #2, and has the talent to become a solid starter. As someone who loves the game, Jared Lorenzen playing QB is like a 5’4" MLB or a 300-pound punt returner. it’s just cool. Speaking as an Eagles fan, the Pillsbury Throwboy is an awesome number two. Frankly, I think they should cut Eli and start Lorenzen. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/423 "2008-04-28T16:29:09Z")
[QUOTE=furt] Inviting them to camp does not equate to offering them starting jobs. Do you remember the scene in Rudy where the coaches explain what the scout team is for? And my memory is that in 2004 UCF was playing freshmen everywhere because O’Leary was moving in his guys. In 2005 we were a bowl team. Sorry, I just don’t buy the idea that a 28 yo ex-player is going to walk in off the street and start at a 1A program. Sounds like the guy I knew who swore that he would have made the NBA if he hadn’t quit college. Uh huh. Why “surely?” I think he’s a smart guy who knows he doesn’t have seven years left – I suspect he wants a chance to win (and his owner thinks he should get it) more than the money. (Of course, being a smart, handsome, articulate guy with good post-football prospects, Taylor also knows the monetary value of winning.) More important, the question is where your team lies in the success cycle. Taylor obviously only has a very few seasons left as a top player; but the Jags are a top-five team _right now_, and they had a chance to add a player who could help get them from top-five to top one. Their future is now, exacly as the Bucs’ was when they got Rice. They won a trophy with him; the fact that Rice got old later is by-the-way. [/QUOTE] I’m not talking about being invited back to the scout team. They were invited back to the team (at least by Kruczek). Anyway, the fact that K_F_S ran for 1100 yards as a rookie behind three freshmen more or less proves my point. The Bucs got Rice when he was 26, not 33. You could compare the Jared Allen trade to Rice in that sense, not the potential trade of/for Taylor. Your suggestion that Taylor doesn’t want big money would make it make more sense, but I don’t believe any player coming off four straight Pro Bowls and 1 year removed from being Defensive POTY will take any below-market deal. The Jags clearly didn’t believe they needed much from this draft; they could have had Allen for not much more than they gave up for Harvey. _That_ would have been a tremendous move. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/424 "2008-04-28T16:36:25Z")
[QUOTE=furt] As someone who loves the game, Jared Lorenzen playing QB is like a 5’4" MLB or a 300-pound punt returner. it’s just cool. Speaking as an Eagles fan, the Pillsbury Throwboy is an awesome number two. Frankly, I think they should cut Eli and start Lorenzen. [/QUOTE] And nobody has better nicknames than The Battleship Lorenzen. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/425 "2008-04-28T17:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Just for the record, Galloway ran an _electronically timed_ 4.34 at Bucs FanFest two years ago, a few months before his 34th birthday. I wouldn’t say he’s lost a step so much as a couple of inches. Of course he has to slow down sooner or later. I really wonder what was going on all that time in Dallas. I know he had a severe knee injury, but could it really have taken him five years to recover? [/QUOTE] Wow. That’s pretty sick. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/426 "2008-04-28T18:03:28Z")
[The Hair](http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3357479&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft08%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dkiper_jr_mel%26id%3d3357479%26campaign%3drss%26source%3dESPNHeadlines) has spoken about the draft. The thing that struck me was that there was only one team that Kiper said had a worse than average draft. Doesn’t that kind of screw the idea of “average” if 31 of the 32 teams had “average or above” drafts? And, oh my God is he wrong about the Ravens. According to The Hair, only 4 teams had a better draft than them. Me, I’m not so sure about that. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/427 "2008-04-28T18:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] [The Hair](http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=3357479&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft08%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dkiper_jr_mel%26id%3d3357479%26campaign%3drss%26source%3dESPNHeadlines) has spoken about the draft. The thing that struck me was that there was only one team that Kiper said had a worse than average draft. Doesn’t that kind of screw the idea of “average” if 31 of the 32 teams had “average or above” drafts? And, oh my God is he wrong about the Ravens. According to The Hair, only 4 teams had a better draft than them. Me, I’m not so sure about that. [/QUOTE] Well, I suppose he could be comparing them to previous drafts as well as other teams - in which case apparently this is the most talented draft pool ever! ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/428 "2008-04-28T18:22:58Z")
I agree with his evaluation of the Lions draft. Nothing really jumps out and bites me in the dick. This is the first time in a few years (maybe it’s because we didn’t draft in the top 7) that I didn’t get that little tingle for football season. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/429 "2008-04-28T18:24:35Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Well, I suppose he could be comparing them to previous drafts as well as other teams - in which case apparently this is the most talented draft pool ever! [/QUOTE] From his 2007 draft grade: ``` * B+: Browns, Vikings, 49ers * B: Falcons, Ravens, Bills, Panthers, Bears, Cowboys, Patriots, Jets, Steelers * B-: Cardinals, Broncos, Colts, Saints * C+: Bengals, Packers, Raiders, Rams * C: Lions, Jaguars, Chiefs, Dolphins, Chargers, Seahawks, Buccaneers * C-: Texans, Giants, Eagles, Titans, Redskins ``` At least in that one, there were 5 that did less than average rather than just one. I’m sure Mel is a great man, but his grades are meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/430 "2008-04-28T18:39:51Z")
Hey **Ellis Dee** , I opened this thread specifically looking for your summary on the Giants draft. Come on, help a fellow fan out. 😃 Jim (Seriously though, I really did search through several hundred posts looking for your summary) ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/431 "2008-04-28T18:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] I’m sure Mel is a great man, but his grades are meaningless. [/QUOTE] Not to mention the fact that one of his C- teams won the Super Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/432 "2008-04-28T18:53:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Not to mention the fact that one of his C- teams won the Super Bowl. [/QUOTE] And seven of twelve playoff teams overall had a C or C-. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/433 "2008-04-28T18:59:05Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Not to mention the fact that one of his C- teams won the Super Bowl. [/QUOTE] Well that doesn’t really have a bearing on whether or not they had a good draft this year. He’s too afraid to say bad things about teams and prospects it seems though so his ratings aren’t worth very much. Also… Joe Flacco at #18… B… teehee. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/434 "2008-04-28T19:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Well that doesn’t really have a bearing on whether or not they had a good draft this year. [/QUOTE] The grade was from last year. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/435 "2008-04-29T00:10:55Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] Take Joe Flacco. Now replace his arm strength and throwing mechanics of … say your Aunt Mary. That’s Nick Hill. [/QUOTE] Eh, you think Flacco is a bum. Forgive me if I take your analysis with a mountain size grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/436 "2008-04-29T00:19:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Not to mention the fact that one of his C- teams won the Super Bowl. [/QUOTE] Close. I think you meant to say “not to mention the fact that he handed out the lowest grade to a team’s draft whose **entire** class produced huge in a Superbowl-winning playoff run.” I mean, seriously. That worst-rated draft class was so good it generated an honest-to-god nickname: “Reese’s Pieces.” Nice grade, Mel. Sure called that one. It’s not like non-Giants fans have ever heard the names Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Ahmad Bradshaw, or Kevin Boss, right? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/437 "2008-04-29T00:44:52Z")
I just wanted to give a shout out in support and praise for the Cowboys organization. It’s easy to mock Jerry Jones for signing headcases like Pacman and TO, but the flip side is that he’s more willing to hand out well-deserved second chances. I hope that [Marcus Dixon](http://www.blackcommentator.com/71/71_wise_sex.html) gets the first sack on Eli this season. > [@](#): > > This is the story of a real American tragedy. The kind they make movies about. > > The victim – and let there be no mistake that is the only word that fits here – is Marcus Dixon: a young man who was an ‘A’ student in high school, a member of the National Honor Society, one of the best defensive football players in the United States, who scored above a 1200 on his SAT, and had signed a letter of intent to attend Vanderbilt University as a student-athlete in the most complete sense of the word. And yet today, Marcus Dixon sits in a prison cell in Georgia, staring at a 10-year sentence, because – and let there be no mistake about this either – Marcus Dixon is black, and that makes all the difference. > > Barring a reversal of his sentence by the state Supreme Court, Dixon, who lived in Rome, Georgia, about an hour northwest of Atlanta (but farther away than that, one suspects, in cultural terms), is going to spend the next decade of his life in prison for having consensual sex with a white girl. That is not a misprint and it is not a matter of opinion. That is ultimately why he was expelled from school, why his scholarship was rescinded, and why he may not see freedom until the age of 28. Yet another false rape accusation. This time, the twist is that the accuser willingly retracted her accusation. See, she was his girlfriend. But they still sent him away for 10 years. It’s hard not to indict all of Georgia as racist scum when you hear stories like this. Luckily, Georgia partially redeemed herself by reversing the sentence, and now he’s trying to get his life back together. Jerry Jones threw him a bone, but there is certainly no guarantee he’ll make the team. I very much hope he does, and if he does, I’ll be rooting for him all season. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/438 "2008-04-29T01:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] Close. I think you meant to say “not to mention the fact that he handed out the lowest grade to a team’s draft whose **entire** class produced huge in a Superbowl-winning playoff run.” I mean, seriously. That worst-rated draft class was so good it generated an honest-to-god nickname: “Reese’s Pieces.” Nice grade, Mel. Sure called that one. It’s not like non-Giants fans have ever heard the names Aaron Ross, Steve Smith, Ahmad Bradshaw, or Kevin Boss, right? [/QUOTE] Eh, I think you’re being too hard on Mel. Here’s his recap of the Giants draft: > [@Mel Kiper Jr.](#): > > **New York Giants: GRADE: C-** > I would have gone differently with the Giants’ draft. Cornerback Aaron Ross has very good ball skills but not great catchup speed. I was surprised they didn’t take left tackle Joe Staley because they need someone who can protect Eli Manning’s blind side. The Giants took offensive tackle Adam Koets in the sixth round and even passed on left tackle Jermon Bushrod. If they had taken Staley, they could have drafted Eric Wright from UNLV instead of WR Steve Smith. I would rather have had Staley and Wright, but Smith is a good receiver and will be someone who holds onto the ball. Zak DeOssie was a really good long snapper in college and, at worst, will be a backup linebacker in the NFL. Kevin Boss (fifth round) is a natural pass-catching tight end with speed and has a chance to make an impact in the passing game. Safety Michael Johnson was a good pick in the seventh round but needs to be more physical. I think his grade is pretty quixotic, but it sounds to me that he’s more or less marking them down for not using their picks to maximize their haul. He went out of his way to point out that the players they got were good ones but they passed on an opportunity for more. Highlighting his suggestion to take Staley and Wright instead of Ross and Smith is a fair one because Staley started all season at RT for the Niners and is being moved to starting LT this season. He’s been a success. Eric Wright started all season long for the Browns and is arguably a lateral move to Ross. Steve Smith was fine but you could make a case that Staley was better and that he’d have been a more valuable piece if the Giants hadn’t been almost flawlessly healthy along the O-Line last season. Certainly the Giants draft was a good one and I don’t think Mel should give demerits to teams just because they don’t use his philosophy (he should mark them down in they draft bad players or reach for players or give away picks) but let’s not imply that he thought the Giants got bad players. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/439 "2008-04-29T01:08:35Z")
[QUOTE=Omniscient] Eh, you think Flacco is a bum. Forgive me if I take your analysis with a mountain size grain of salt. [/QUOTE] I don’t think Flacco is a bum. I think Flacco is horribly overrated, unworthy of a first round pick, a huge developmental project and will, at best, be Ben Rothlisberger, but not for a few years. When the great Nick Hill experiment fails, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429/440 "2008-04-29T01:20:23Z")
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee] It’s hard not to indict all of Georgia as racist scum when you hear stories like this. [/QUOTE] Well, this doesn’t exactly capture what happened. From what I read the kid got arrested because the Cops and DA were racist scum but he was actually acquitted at trial of all the most serious charges. The problem was that the jury was _stupid_ and didn’t understand the charges and found him guilty of aggravated molestation and statutory rape. They didn’t understand that the former charge was a felony with a mandatory sentence. Georgian Law Enforcement are racist and it’s populace is just stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-clock-2008-nfl-draft/446429.md?page=23)