# On the etymology of "sucks" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499 "2010-10-27T10:32:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/1 "2010-10-27T10:32:12Z")
I’ve been reading Narnia books to my daughter recently, and midway through _Prince Caspian_ I was quite startled to see, in among all the "By Jove"s and "Great Scott"s and the like, the following line: (context: Edmund explaining why he, and not Peter, should be the one to take on a fencing match with another character) “It will be more of a sucks for him if I win, and less of a let-down for us all if I fail” That’s _almost_ modern slang there. Except that a 2010 character would probably say “will suck more” rather than “more of a sucks”. But clearly, the derivation of the slang that he’s using there can’t be the same as the modern slang “sucks” - not in a 1950s kids book anyway! So what does it mean? What’s the derivation? Anyone here old enough to remember 1950’s British slang first time around? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/2 "2010-10-27T11:20:44Z")
> [@OED](#): > > 1. pl. as int. Used as an expression of contempt, chiefly by children. Also in phr. sucks to you and varr. slang. > > 1913 C. MACKENZIE Sinister Street I. I. vii. 98 This kid’s in our army, so sucks! 1922 F. HAMILTON P.J.: Secret Service Boy iv. 178 ‘S’, he announced, ‘u,c,k,s,t,o,y,o,u.’ 1935 N. MITCHISON We have been Warned I. 28 Brian is a baby. Oh sucks, oh sucks on Brian. 1945 E. WAUGH Brideshead Revisited II. v. 287 It’s great sucks to Bridey. 1952 ‘C. BRAND’ London Particular xv. 191 A most regretable air of sucks to you. 1968 Melody Maker 30 Nov. 24/5 This is a rotten recordyah boo and sucks. 1974 Times 4 Mar. 9/5 Sucks boo, then, with acting like this, to that new National Theatre down the road. 1978 ‘J. LYMINGTON’ Waking of Stone ii. 45 ‘Sucks to you!’ she said..tossing her head so her pigtails swung. 1983 Listener 19 May 11/1 The council treated the urbane Mr Cook to the politician’s equivalent of ‘Yah, boo, sucks’. . Rather British. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/3 "2010-10-27T11:24:10Z")
I just checked the OED (the Oxford English Dictionary) and one of the definitions for the term “sucks” is that it’s used as either an interjection or a noun in exactly the sense you describe. Furthermore, it was mostly a children’s term. The examples given make it clear that it wasn’t thought of being obscene, just childish. I think from the examples it was mostly a British term. The entry describes it as possibly being a shorter version of “sucks to you” which has the same meaning, both as in interjection or as a noun. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/4 "2010-10-27T12:33:03Z")
Now that you mention it, I do remember my dad using “Yah boo sucks” on various occasions. As an expression, it’s still kind of lacking in the “making sense” department though… ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/5 "2010-10-27T13:42:44Z")
I remember being told two origins of it in the 80s-90s. One origin is that it’s a shorten form of “go suck some eggs” or other various objects. That would go with the children’s saying The second origin is that it has to do with oral sex. To get on one’s knees and “suck” was humiliating. So, it could be the children’s variant of “blow me.” ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/6 "2010-10-27T14:39:57Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > . > > > [@OED](#): > > > > 1. pl. as int. Used as an expression of contempt, chiefly by children. Also in phr. sucks to you and varr. slang. > > > > 1913 C. MACKENZIE Sinister Street I. I. vii. 98 This kid’s in our army, so sucks! 1922 F. HAMILTON P.J.: Secret Service Boy iv. 178 ‘S’, he announced, ‘u,c,k,s,t,o,y,o,u.’ 1935 N. MITCHISON We have been Warned I. 28 Brian is a baby. Oh sucks, oh sucks on Brian. 1945 E. WAUGH Brideshead Revisited II. v. 287 It’s great sucks to Bridey. 1952 ‘C. BRAND’ London Particular xv. 191 A most regretable air of sucks to you. 1968 Melody Maker 30 Nov. 24/5 This is a rotten recordyah boo and sucks. 1974 Times 4 Mar. 9/5 Sucks boo, then, with acting like this, to that new National Theatre down the road. 1978 ‘J. LYMINGTON’ Waking of Stone ii. 45 ‘Sucks to you!’ she said..tossing her head so her pigtails swung. 1983 Listener 19 May 11/1 The council treated the urbane Mr Cook to the politician’s equivalent of ‘Yah, boo, sucks’. > > Rather British. They left out the best one! “Sucks to your asth-mar!” - Lord of the Flies ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/7 "2010-10-27T15:02:26Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > I remember being told two origins of it in the 80s-90s. One origin is that it’s a shorten form of “go suck some eggs” or other various objects. That would go with the children’s saying > > The second origin is that it has to do with oral sex. To get on one’s knees and “suck” was humiliating. So, it could be the children’s variant of “blow me.” Obligatory [Johnny Cash](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYNK8A_bXwA) link. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/8 "2010-10-27T15:40:07Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > The second origin is that it has to do with oral sex. To get on one’s knees and “suck” was humiliating. So, it could be the children’s variant of “blow me.” I used to play the videogame SimCity _a lot_. In one version of the game, there was a text crawl on the bottom of the screen containing citizen complaints. If you set the tax rate too high, one of the complaints was “taxes suck.” Someone complained on one of the official or unofficial forums about the game that the language was inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/9 "2010-10-27T16:25:04Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > They left out the best one! “Sucks to your asth-mar!” - Lord of the Flies You beat me to it! ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/10 "2010-10-27T16:39:40Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > But clearly, the derivation of the slang that he’s using there can’t be the same as the modern slang “sucks” - not in a 1950s kids book anyway! And what do you think the derivation the modern slang “sucks” is? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/11 "2010-10-27T16:42:49Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > They left out the best one! “Sucks to your asth-mar!” - Lord of the Flies That’s the first thing I thought of too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/12 "2010-10-27T18:24:49Z")
In an old Three Stooges short (not sure which one since it’s just a clip I found), Curly says, “If at first you don’t succeed, keep on sucking until you do succeed!” In retrospect it seems like a pun of a sort, and given the character inveterate naivete, it may not have been intended precisely as the modern idiom is now. Since Jerome Howard died in 1952, it has to have come from before then obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/13 "2010-10-27T19:34:52Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > “It will be more of a sucks for him if I win, and less of a let-down for us all if I fail” > > That’s _almost_ modern slang there. Except that a 2010 character would probably say “will suck more” rather than “more of a sucks”. But clearly, the derivation of the slang that he’s using there can’t be the same as the modern slang “sucks” - not in a 1950s kids book anyway! > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > They left out the best one! “Sucks to your asth-mar!” - Lord of the Flies Could it be a variant of “shucks”? ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/14 "2010-10-27T20:09:56Z")
Although many assume the modern slang “sucks” is derived from fellatio, my impression is that this is not at all actually clear from the etymological evidence. It is quite possible that the phrase derived elsewise, and only later acquired the sexual connotations. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/15 "2010-10-27T21:06:34Z")
The phrase “Yar! Sucks! Boo!” as a derogatory expression occurs frequently in the Billy Bunter school stories by Frank Richards. I doubt any sexual connotation is implied. ---
**Author:** ![J.D.G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@J.D.G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J.D.G)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/16 "2010-10-27T22:49:47Z")
From the [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://www.etymonline.com/): > [@](#): > > **Suck** > O.E. _sucan_, from PIE root _sug-/suk- of imitative origin (cf. O.S., O.H.G. sugan, O.N. suga_, M.Du. _sughen_, Du. _zuigen_, Ger. _saugen_ “to suck;” L. _sugere_ “to suck,” _succus_ “juice, sap;” O.Ir. _sugim_, Welsh _sugno_ “to suck”). Meaning “do fellatio” is first recorded 1928. Slang sense of “be contemptible” first attested 1971 (the underlying notion is of fellatio). _Suck eggs_ is from 1906. _Suck hind tit_ “be inferior” is Amer.Eng. slang first recorded 1940. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/17 "2010-10-28T02:15:20Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > They left out the best one! “Sucks to your asth-mar!” - Lord of the Flies > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > You beat me to it! First thing I thought of. Only, I thought he said ‘arse mar’. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/18 "2010-10-28T02:31:32Z")
There seem to be two quite different slang meanings of “sucks” involved here. “You suck,” means something like _you are disgusting_ (or mean, or horrible). “Sucks to you,” (or “Yah, boo sucks,” and other variants) means something like _I don’t care about you or what you say_. It seems perfectly plausible to me that these two usages might have quite unconnected origins, and that the first (which is now, surely, much more common) has to do with oral sex. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/19 "2010-10-28T03:09:30Z")
Hmm… in the absence of legitimate etymology, other than the direct Oxford English Dictionary and Online Etymology Dictionary references… it seems sensible to me that ‘sucking’ could be thought demeaning even if not applied to oral sex. And ya know, I’m not sure why anyone practicing fellatio would deserve contempt. Gratitude, yes, but contempt? Chicken eggs are sucked by grandmas, and babes suck at mother’s breast; both signs / conditions of fraility and weakness. I bet that where “that sucks” comes from originally, somehow or other. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499/20 "2010-10-28T03:14:27Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > And what do you think the derivation the modern slang “sucks” is? I was assuming an oral sex component of the origin. My evidence would be that when people are trying to intensify their use of the term they often turn to things like “sucks donkey cock” or “sucks the sweat off a dead man’s balls”. I admit I have no particular evidence that these elements were present when the term was originated, but they seem to go together quite naturally in many people’s minds. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-etymology-of-sucks/558499.md?page=2)