# On the genesis of rock music standards and practices **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 6, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739 "2007-07-06T14:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/1 "2007-07-06T14:54:01Z")
Growing up as a child of the Cult of Guitar, I always sort of assumed that various techniques, practices, and devices used in rock were pioneered by some committee or something. Actually, I never even put that much thought into it. I just assumed that things were the way they were just because. Quite a naive view, actually. It occurred to me recently that someone had to be first. For instance, was the talk-box some crazy new invention by a faceless corporation and mass marketed to bands, or did a musician invent it for his own use? If so, who and when? I think we can agree that the triple-finger hammer was invented by Eddie van Halen. But what about: String bending Whammy bar Talk-box Distorted guitar Trashing hotel rooms Leslie speakers Stage explosions Double bass drum Leaping about the stage Smashing instruments Echo Synthesizer use What else? ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/2 "2007-07-06T15:12:23Z")
The first synthesizer was made by Dr. Robert Moog in the '60s. From everything I’ve read, the first professional musician to get his hands on one and use it to record/perform was Keith Emerson. Smashing instruments have got to be Pete Townsend and Keith Moon from The Who. Trashing hotel rooms were probably done for a long time (blues or jazz musicians after a wild night of partying after a show maybe), but John Bonham of Led Zepplin turned it into an art form. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/3 "2007-07-06T15:21:31Z")
Great topic. [QUOTE=tdn] String bending [/quote] B.B. King probably did the most to popularize it, but I imagine bending has been around as long as single-note leads have been around. > [@](#): > > Distorted guitar Just a prediction, but a discussion of distortion vs. feedback is coming. 😉 For the typical version of distortion, maybe Link Wray? > [@](#): > > Leslie speakers Invented for the organ. The Beatles were running other instruments through Leslie speakers, so it goes back at least that far. > [@](#): > > Smashing instruments I think The Who are generally credited with making that into an art form. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/4 "2007-07-06T15:28:12Z")
Sometimes it’s hard to say, because there’s “the first person to do it” and then there’s “the first person to popularize it”. For instance, distorted guitar: Dave Davies of \*\*The Kinks \*\* often gets credit for popularizing that sound (he slit his speaker cones to get it) on _You Really Got Me_, but you can go back a little bit and notice that there were precursors, although not quite as savage sounding as Mr. Davies’. You can hear distorted guitar on **Link Wray** ’s _Rumble_, **Johnny Burnette & The Rock N Roll Trio** ’s _Train Kept A Rollin’_, **The Ventures** ’ _2000 Pound Bee_, and I’m sure there are others. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/5 "2007-07-06T15:37:11Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] The first synthesizer was made by Dr. Robert Moog in the '60s. From everything I’ve read, the first professional musician to get his hands on one and use it to record/perform was Keith Emerson. [/QUOTE] But didn’t Moog just modify Leon Theremin’s device? I’ve heard the claim that Pink Floyd was first to use a sequencer. ---
**Author:** ![Ichbin\_Dubist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ichbin\_Dubist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ichbin_Dubist)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/6 "2007-07-06T15:49:42Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] You can hear distorted guitar on **Link Wray** ’s _Rumble_, **Johnny Burnette & The Rock N Roll Trio** ’s _Train Kept A Rollin’_, **The Ventures** ’ _2000 Pound Bee_, and I’m sure there are others. [/QUOTE] And, earlier still, a few blues records – I’m thinking of Pat Hare’s “I’m Gonna Murder My Baby” and a few tracks by Joe Louis Hill (both of who were recorded by Sam Phillips as Sun, I think). These were not big-selling records, though. Chet Atkins and Les Paul were early adopters of the Bigsby whammy bar, which goes back to the forties. There are similar devices on a pedal steel guitar. From Wikipedia’s article on the [talk box](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_box): > [@](#): > > The talk box was created by Bill West (Husband of Dottie West) in 1971 for Joe Walsh to play “Rocky Mountain Way” live. It was later patented by Bob Heil of Heil Sound. … In 1973, Heil gave his talk box to Peter Frampton as a Christmas present. Frampton used it extensively on his album Frampton Comes Alive! Due to the success of the album, and particularly the hit singles “Do You Feel Like We Do” and “Show Me the Way”, Frampton has become somewhat synonymous with the talk box. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/7 "2007-07-06T15:58:30Z")
Interesting – I was thinking Joe Walsh. But I’d heard of the talk box – and even made my own – long before anyone had heard of Frampton. ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/8 "2007-07-06T16:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] But what about: String bending [/QUOTE] Feller called [Charlie Christian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Christian) may be responsible for that. And, for “distorted guitar”, I think Ike Turner with his _Rocket 88_ may be your man. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/9 "2007-07-06T16:14:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sean Factotum] The first synthesizer was made by Dr. Robert Moog in the '60s. From everything I’ve read, the first professional musician to get his hands on one and use it to record/perform was Keith Emerson. [/QUOTE] There is a long history of electronic instruments, of which Theremin and Moog are high points but hardly alone. Electronic synthesizers were upgraded throughout the 1950s. Moog’s contribution appears to be the voltage controlled oscillators. From what I’ve read this was the breakthrough that made it possible to play like an instrument, but if there’s an expert out there I’ll happily stand aside. The Moog moved into pop music through [Paul Beaver](http://www.spaceagepop.com/beaver.htm) of Beaver and Krause, who acted as Moog’s west coast salesman. He was a friend of Mickey Dolenz of the Monkees, who used a Moog on the song “Daily Nightly” which appeared on Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd. in 1967, a full two years before Emerson added a Moog to his keyboard repertoire. > [@](#): > > Smashing instruments have got to be Pete Townsend and Keith Moon from The Who. Townshend is most famous for smashing his instruments, but he didn’t start it. > **[Instrument destruction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_destruction)** > > The destruction of musical instruments is an act performed by a few pop, rock and other musicians during live performances, particularly at the end of the gig. The act of destroying instruments has origins in animation performances as far back as the 1930's. Some of the very first footage of instrument destruction (guitar smashing) can be viewed in The Old Mill Pond, an animated short film from the Happy Harmonies series, directed by Hugh Harman for the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer cartoon studio. In 1956... > [@](#): > > It is rumored that Charles Mingus was the father of the practice of guitar smashing. Mingus, a great jazz bassist and composer, once destroyed his $800 bass in a moment of intense frustration with his band. In the audience that night were members of the rock band The Animals who re-created the instrument destruction in their own sets. > > In the mid 60s, guitarist Peter Townshend of The Who was perhaps the most famous guitar smashing artist. He saw his guitar smashing as a kind of auto-destructive art. Jeff Beck, then a member of the Yardbirds, also became famous for destroying his guitars onstage around the same time. Jimi Hendrix is also famous for guitar destruction, namely for setting guitars on fire at a number of different shows, most notably the Monterey Pop Festival. and: > **[The Who](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who)** > > The Who are an English rock band formed in London in 1964. Their classic lineup (1964–1978) consisted of lead vocalist Roger Daltrey, guitarist Pete Townshend, bassist John Entwistle, and drummer Keith Moon. Considered one of the most influential rock bands of the 20th century, their contributions to rock music include the development of the Marshall stack, large public address systems, the use of synthesisers, Entwistle's and Moon's influential playing styles, Townshend's feedback and power c... > [@](#): > > Townshend cites his art school mentor Gustav Metzger as an influence, who had developed a concept called Auto-Destructive Art. And a third strike: > [@](#): > > Trashing hotel rooms were probably done for a long time (blues or jazz musicians after a wild night of partying after a show maybe), but John Bonham of Led Zepplin turned it into an art form. Keith Moon also had hotel room trashing down to an art form years before John Bonham. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/10 "2007-07-06T16:14:48Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I think we can agree that the triple-finger hammer was invented by Eddie van Halen. [/QUOTE] Triple-finger hammerons, yeah, I’d agree. Depending on which interview you read, EVH attributes his first exposure to tapping (open string) to either Billy Gibbons or Jimmy Page. Can you nail down"distorted guitar" for us? Otherwise we might get involved in a semantic debate concerning feedback, overdrive and distortion. > [@](#): > > Leslie speakers Leslies were in use by keyboardists before they were used by guitarists. Stevie Ray Vaughan tends to get a lot of credit for being the guitarist to popularize the use of Leslies, but the Beatles and Eric Clapton were using them long before Stevie Ray. > [@](#): > > Whammy bar Nailing this down might be a good thing, too. Tremolo bars on guitars are nothing new, but using them in the way that EVH popularized is fairly new. Are you referring to Floyd Rose-style stuff with locking nuts, or just trems in general? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/11 "2007-07-06T16:16:36Z")
IIRC, Pete Townsend broke his first guitar accidentally, by swinging it around in a club with a very low roof. The crowd went nuts, and he though “Hmm… I might have a gimmick here” ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/12 "2007-07-06T16:49:45Z")
Lots of good info so far; I won’t add where it doesn’t appear to be needed… String bending Whammy bar - concurrent with solidbody electric guitar construction; i.e., the 30’s and 40’s. Les Paul’s “Log” - a 4x4 hunk o’ wood with hollow-body guitar “wings” bolted onto the sides of it - had a primitive whammy bar, IIRC. Talk-box - as stated, but Jeff Beck was using one by the Blow by Blow album - She’s a Woman… Distorted guitar - An Arky did a good job on the commonly-cited early songs. John Lennon asserts that the beginning of I Feel Fine is the first example of feedback used in a commercial pop song - but feedback is different than distorted guitar… Trashing hotel rooms - I bet opera divas trashed hotel rooms! Leslie speakers Stage explosions - again, opera, the 1812 overture, circus, etc… Double bass drum - hmm, Ginger Baker of Cream was one of the first, but I am not sure if he got it from someone else… Leaping about the stage - many performance types Smashing instruments Echo - invented by Les Paul in the mid-to-late 40’s Synthesizer use - pioneered in rock by Pete Townshend, e.g., Baba O’Reilly and Won’t Get Fooled Again… And as for Eddie innovating on two-handed tapping, well, I have not heard that he looked to Billy Gibbons, but I can say the lots of folks did both tapping and 12th-fret harmonics well before EVH did. Heck Ace Frehley did some tapping, and jazz guitarists like Joe Pass and Lenny Breau did 12th fret harmonic tapping. EVH took the techniques over the top and married them to hard rock pop tunes… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/13 "2007-07-06T17:20:54Z")
Leaping about the stage goes back to rock’s earliest days, if not further to jump blues and similar genres. Sonny Burgess at the inception of rockabilly was famous for cartwheeling and handspringing himself onto the stage–and he’s still performs today with almost as much energy! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/14 "2007-07-06T17:26:56Z")
[QUOTE=THespos] Can you nail down"distorted guitar" for us? Otherwise we might get involved in a semantic debate concerning feedback, overdrive and distortion. [/QUOTE] How about all three? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/15 "2007-07-06T17:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] Leaping about the stage goes back to rock’s earliest days, if not further to jump blues and similar genres. [/QUOTE] True. Several of the tricks Jimi Hendrix made famous, like playing the guitar behind his back or with his teeth, were invented by T-Bone Walker. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/16 "2007-07-06T18:33:59Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] True. Several of the tricks Jimi Hendrix made famous, like playing the guitar behind his back or with his teeth, were invented by T-Bone Walker. [/QUOTE] Walker was clearly a progenitor of Hendrix, along with Buddy Guy (who was also influenced by T-Bone). But I don’t know if T-Bone invented those flashy moves, or was simply the first to apply them to electric blues / jump blues playing, which got him a lot of visibility, since electric guitars were louder and could be played up on stage yet still be heard and seen… to my knowledge: **Feedback** : When a guitar’s strings/pickups are stimulated by their own signal coming out of a loud amp, setting up a reinforcing cycle and a sonic squeel, howl or other huge noise depending on various factors **Overdrive** : The act of pumping more signal into an amp’s circuit than it can handle, leading to distortion **Distortion** : The byproduct of overdrive, when too much signal is sent into an amp’s pre-amp and/or power amp circuits, resulting in clipping - basically not processing the full signal efficiently, “clipping off” parts of signal and distorting it. It just so happens that this distortion can sound pleasing to some folks… So you can _overdrive_ an amp to get it to \*distort \*- and if it is loud enough, that can increase the likelihood of _feedback_. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/17 "2007-07-06T18:40:15Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] Got it? [/QUOTE] Got it, though the distinction between overdrive and distortion is a little fuzzy (pun intended!), as they essentially sound the same. In fact, don’t fuzz pedals essentially force overdrive? What Beatles song is it that uses a fuzz bass? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/18 "2007-07-06T18:48:16Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] Walker was clearly a progenitor of Hendrix, along with Buddy Guy (who was also influenced by T-Bone). But I don’t know if T-Bone invented those flashy moves, or was simply the first to apply them to electric blues / jump blues playing, which got him a lot of visibility, since electric guitars were louder and could be played up on stage yet still be heard and seen… [/QUOTE] I should have worded that more carefully. I don’t know if Walker did it first, but I imagine those tricks became fashionable with the advent of the electric. It’s _much_ harder to play one of those big acoustics or steel guitars behind your back. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/19 "2007-07-06T19:04:51Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I should have worded that more carefully. I don’t know if Walker did it first, but I imagine those tricks became fashionable with the advent of the electric. It’s _much_ harder to play one of those big acoustics or steel guitars behind your back. 😃 [/QUOTE] Ever see the Buena Vista Social Club? 😉 But a pedal steel – yeah. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739/20 "2007-07-06T19:12:27Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Got it, though the distinction between overdrive and distortion is a little fuzzy (pun intended!), as they essentially sound the same. In fact, don’t fuzz pedals essentially force overdrive? What Beatles song is it that uses a fuzz bass? [/QUOTE] There is enough of a difference between overdrive and distortion to keep the terms separate - but of course it doesn’t help that the terms are often used interchangeably (along with fuzz, gain, boost and a bunch of others) - and manufacters of amps and effects pedals will label knobs, amp models and effects somewhat indescriminantly. - Overdrive pedals - you can get overdrive/boost pedals that are not attempting to impart any tonal color on the signal, just boost it to increase loudness and/or lower the clipping threshold to get the amp to distort at lower volumes… - Distortion pedals - are intended to color the tone of the guitar either by shifting the EQ (most pedals come with one or more tone controls) or by “pre-clipping” the signal - i.e., they attempt to clip the signal the way an distorting amp would - but they try to do this _before_ the signal gets to the amp. So an amp that is dialed up to deliver pure, clean tones can sound like it is clipping because the chips in a fuzzbox are doing that artificially (or even not artificially, since there is now a set of pedals that have their own tubes to naturally clip the signal…) Hope this helps… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-genesis-of-rock-music-standards-and-practices/410739.md?page=2)