# On the naming of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 18, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443 "2024-04-18T03:35:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/21 "2024-04-18T20:56:41Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Thank you, @Northern_Piper , for that excellent explanation. I’ve always known (okay, you got me, I’ll change that to “I’ve known ever since I started studying the constitution of Canada”) that _Constitution Act, 1867_ s. 3 never states “the Dominion of Canada,” but it seems that a lot of people don’t. A fine distinction, but a distinction nonetheless. We’ve always been just plain “Canada,” without “Kingdom of” or “Republic of” or indeed “Dominion of,” or similar Right. What does the constitution say? It is like that old and totally bogus “got ya” pub quiz- “How many states in the USA” 50 right? No, the pub answer is 46 since 4 states call themselves “commonwealths”. 😒 🙄 However, that is wrong- in America the Constitution is the supreme law of the land- and in it- there are only states. _We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America._ Excellent post there @Northern_Piper. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/22 "2024-04-18T21:50:27Z")
Thanks for an entertaining and informative post. The idea of an intercontinental country _a Mari usque ad Mare_ was especially interesting to me as I just watched Ken Burns fascinating documentary “The West” on westward expansion, which will be a separate thread. My Ontario city has all sorts of old-timey buildings which still use the name Dominion. I never appreciated the concept of rank, so thanks for elucidating that. It is ironic Canadians (at least their senior civil servants) were so concerned with not upsetting Americans. _Plus ça change_, except these days Trump wishes to be king long after Washington refused the idea (three times, IIRC, before consenting to a simple orange coloured laurel wreath). 😉 If the name Dominion was to be feared, it was perhaps referring to Ontario’s most decrepit defunct grocery store; the specific Dominion’s nearest the University of Toronto campus. The Dominion Automobile Association is gone, but RBCs investment wing has not. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/23 "2024-04-18T22:26:19Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Trivia?!? Much ink has been spilled, and electrons bent out of shape over this issue. Well, yeah, but it’s about Canada; not any, y’know, _important_ country… [Ducks and flees **Northern\_Piper** ’s wrath, grinning] ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/24 "2024-04-18T22:49:17Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > If the name Dominion was to be feared, it was perhaps referring to Ontario’s most decrepit defunct grocery store; the specific Dominion’s nearest the University of Toronto campus. The Dominion Automobile Association is gone, but RBCs investment wing has not. And this grocery chain only went defunct in the 2000s, after it was bought out by a different chain called Metro. Until about the age of 8, I knew of no other Dominion but the supermarket. The first time I saw the term “Dominion of Canada”, I was left confused and didn’t understand what the connection to the store chain was. I think I imagined the latter term to refer to some geographic / geological area, like the Canadian Shield. Having grown up around Dominions, I quite miss their old lettering / logo, with the distinctive not-quite Gothic-font red “D” into which a green maple leaf has been inserted. Nothing endearing about successor Metro’s nondescript red lettering. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/25 "2024-04-18T23:16:51Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > And this grocery chain only went defunct in the 2000s, after it was bought out by a different chain called Metro. Until about the age of 8, I knew of no other Dominion but the supermarket. What did you think the ‘D’ in ‘TD Bank’ stood for? ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/26 "2024-04-18T23:20:32Z")
Ah, yes. Toronto Dominion Bank. But that would probably not score too many points for the branches in New York City, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/27 "2024-04-18T23:27:45Z")
Terrific thread. I’ll be showing this to others. Great writing. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/28 "2024-04-18T23:45:15Z")
> [@themapleleaf](#): > > Ah, yes. Toronto Dominion Bank. But that would probably not score too many points for the branches in New York City, eh? I’m pretty sure the American locations hide the “Toronto” as much as they do the “Dominion”. Bank of Montreal recently moved in around here, taking over Bank of the West, and they are just as careful to always be “BMO” (pronounced “beemo”). I get the impression that their marketing teams have concluded that banks based in foreign cities won’t be as trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/29 "2024-04-19T00:48:06Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Bank of Montreal recently moved in around here, taking over Bank of the West, and they are just as careful to always be “BMO” (pronounced “beemo”). Oh, that’s what that is. My mind immediately went to something scatological when I saw those letters and shut down further thought. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/30 "2024-04-19T02:52:55Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > So is it correct to say that we are the kingdom of Canada, but not the Kingdom of Canada? “Realm” is more commonly used, but only within discussions of the commonwealth, to flag that we retain the monarch, as opposed to commonwealth republics. “Constitutional monarchy” also gets a lot of use, for political science discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/31 "2024-04-19T03:08:09Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > We’ve always been just plain “Canada,” without “Kingdom of” or “Republic of” or indeed “Dominion of,” or similar. It’s also useful to compare our provision to section 3 of the _Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act_, also a British statute. It reads similarly to s. 3 of the BNA Act, with one significant difference: > 3 It shall be lawful for the Queen, with the advice of the Privy Council, to declare by proclamation that, on and after a day therein appointed, not being later than one year after the passing of this Act, the people of New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Queensland, and Tasmania, and also, if Her Majesty is satisfied that the people of Western Australia have agreed thereto, of Western Australia, shall be united in a Federal Commonwealth **under the name of the Commonwealth of Australia.** But the Queen may, at any time after the proclamation, appoint a Governor-General for the Commonwealth. There, “Commonwealth” is part of the name. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/32 "2024-04-19T03:53:29Z")
Most states adopt a name which includes an indication of the form of government of that state. For monarchies, this it typically in the form of, e.g, Kingdom of Belgium; Kindgom of Denmark; Grand Duchy of Luxembourg; United Kingdom of Great Britain and Nothern Ireland. For states with a republican form of government, the commonest forms are either e,g, Republic of Bulgaria; Federal Republic of Germany; Republic of Cyprus or e.g. French Republic; Hellenic Republic; Italian Republic. There are a few edge cases where the name adopted doesn’t clearly point to a particular form of government. You wouldn’t know from the name alone that the United States of America has a republican form of government, or that the Commonwealth of Australia is a monarchy, or that the Swiss Confederation is a republic. But these names still tell you _something_ about the character of the state — often, that it has a federal character. And then there are states whose names point to no characteristics at all. There are not many of these but they include Canada, Ireland, Romania and, arguably, the State of Israel. Some of these, including Ireland and Canada, do have an officially-adopted “rank” or “description” which characterises the state, but doesn’t form part of its name. SFAIK none of the Commonwealth realms, apart from the UK, have a name that includes the word “kingdom”. The name either includes no characterisation at all — Angtigua and Barbuda, Grenada, Belize — or takes the form of Commonwealth of, Federation of, Independent State of. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/33 "2024-04-19T05:20:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Interesting. Next, can you explain “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”? Are we technically wrong to call it “United Kingdom”? In 1707, the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were “United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain”. It was sometimes referred to as “the united kingdom”, but the official name was the Kingdom of Great Britain. In 1801, The Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland became the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. “United” was now an official part of the country’s name. In 1922, the Catholic parts of Ireland became the Irish Free State. In 1927, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was renamed the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So, “United Kingdom” is still correct. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/34 "2024-04-19T11:47:19Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > “United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain” This seems to be saying that “United Kingdom” is the rank, while the name is only “Great Britain”, similar to the Canada situation. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/35 "2024-04-19T14:37:02Z")
I read it as: “Great Britain” is the name “Kingdom” is the rank “United” is a secondary description. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/36 "2024-04-19T14:55:58Z")
Great Britain is the name of an island. Leaving out “…and Northern Ireland” seems a bit rude, or else a political statement declaring your position on Irish reunification.“United Kingdom” is a better shortening, which does seem to make “Kingdom” part of the name and not just a rank. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/37 "2024-04-19T15:06:49Z")
For the 1707 union, “united” was a secondary adjective. For the 1801 union and the 1927 renaming, “United” was part of the official name. ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/38 "2024-04-19T15:07:00Z")
“United Kingdom” is indeed part of the name, and a common abbreviation of the name, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, just as “United States” is part of the name, and a common abbreviation of the name, of the United States of America. But the language quoted about being "“United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain” dates from 1707, when the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were joined to form the Kingdom of Great Britain. Ireland was not a part of this kingdom; it continued to be a separate kingdom until 1801. When the Kingdom of Great Britain and the Kingdom of Ireland were united into a single kingdom in 1801, that new kingdom adopted the name “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland”, later modified to “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” The process of joining England and Scotland was referred to as “uniting” them, and the resultant kingdom was sometimes referred to as the “united kingdom”, particularly when it was mentioned in contexts that distinguished it from the two predecessor kingdoms. But its formal name was the Kingdom of Great Britain, not the United Kingdom of Great Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/39 "2024-04-19T15:21:43Z")
Argh. I was clearer BEFORE I edited my post. What I meant is that using “Great Britain” as the name of the UKoGBaNI is a problematic abbreviation in a way that “United Kingdom” is not, because GB is exclusive (of NI) while UK is inclusive. Therefore, to my mind, UK is inarguably part of the name as well as being descriptive. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443/40 "2024-04-19T15:43:16Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > I read it as: > “Great Britain” is the name > “Kingdom” is the rank > “United” is a secondary description. I like this interpretation. > [@mbh](#): > > For the 1801 union and the 1927 renaming, “United” was part of the official name. Can you or @Northern_Piper quote the law that makes that clear? > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > What I meant is that using “Great Britain” as the name of the UKoGBaNI is a problematic abbreviation in a way that “United Kingdom” is not, because GB is exclusive (of NI) while UK is inclusive. This makes sense, but maybe it’s not the written law, but only customary usage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-naming-of-canada/1000443.md?page=3)