# On the origins of QWERTY **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526 "2010-01-19T04:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/1 "2010-01-19T04:29:13Z")
(In reference to [this column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/221/was-the-qwerty-keyboard-purposely-designed-to-slow-typists) .) My boss once told me (\*) that one factor in laying out the QWERTY keyboard was that one manufacturer of typewriters (he said “Remington”) wanted their salesmen to be able to easily demonstrate the machines by using the top row to print the word TYPEWRITER . Has anybody out there heard of this? H. (\*) Actually, he told me several times. He always tells his tales several times. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/2 "2010-01-19T18:39:06Z")
Remington did not design QWERTY, but did quickly buy out the company that did. I’ve heard the “TYPEWRITER” story before, but the documented facts are as given in the column, and the plain fact is that the “TYPEWRITER” story is _a-priori_ silly. As to the second half of the column, I wish Cecil would revisit it. The article he cites is a blatant piece of political propaganda written by a couple of guys who read _The Fountainhead_ as freshmen and never got over it – special pleading and cherry-picking up the wazoo, and all out of a desperate need to refute August Dvorak’s intolerable heresy to the effect that the all-holy Free Market has produced something that isn’t perfect. (It’s not as though I’m imagining that – they admit it right up front.) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/3 "2010-01-19T19:42:46Z")
The “typewriter” story does not explain “q” , “u” or “o” at all, nor why most of the letters in the word would be assigned to the left hand, not the right. Ergo, it’s bull\*\*\*\*. I agree with **John W. Kennedy** about the add-on. It’s one of Unca Cece’s weaker moments. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/4 "2010-01-19T21:26:15Z")
I have some doubts about this “TYPEWRITER” story, too. Was the term ‘typewriter’ even used at that time? From what I recall, various names were used for the early machines, and it wasn’t until the 1870’s (about 25-35 years into the development of the typewriter) that this term was used. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/5 "2010-01-19T23:13:56Z")
The 1874 machine that introduced QWERTY was called the “Sholes and Glidden Type-Writer” ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f0a364/32.png) [@Old\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/6 "2010-01-20T13:55:48Z")
There must be something about marketing types that draws them to the QWERTY; the source who sent you the article is listed as a marketing professor, and the Liebowitz and Margolis article he cites appears mainly aimed at proving that the keyboard is _not_ a failure of the market to choose a better system. They too are marketers. In a comment on this report, [Randy's Response to the Anti-Dvorak Crusaders | The Dvorak Keyboard](http://www.dvorak-keyboard.com/dvorak2.html) Randy Cassingham fairly well debunks this L&M article - though he too may have a personal ax to grind. But Cassingham at least cites sources and seems to have the information at hand. My brother, who has spent almost as much time in a classroom as I have, and more time typing reports, has great things to say about the Dvorak keyboard; and he uses it preferentially whenever possible. I have always been too lazy to learn to type, so it hardly matters. I recall the Macintosh computers were at one time capable of switching the keyboard from qwerty to Dvorak and back - I wonder if that is still true? ---
**Author:** ![signal11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@signal11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/signal11)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/7 "2010-01-20T22:40:09Z")
> [@Old\_Hippie](#): > > My brother, who has spent almost as much time in a classroom as I have, and more time typing reports, has great things to say about the Dvorak keyboard; and he uses it preferentially whenever possible. I have always been too lazy to learn to type, so it hardly matters. > I recall the Macintosh computers were at one time capable of switching the keyboard from qwerty to Dvorak and back - I wonder if that is still true? All modern OSes provide support for alternative keyboard layouts. In terms of Dvorak’s superiority, it is not so clearly and demonstratively superior that it’s worth the time to retrain. As for the main points of the Dvorak vs Qwerty layout arguments, I’ve found that most arguments on both sides to be very much incomplete, with failures to consider many factors in keyboard input efficiency. For example, I type in several different non-Latin scripts, including some several Asian scripts. Some, such as Korean, forces Left-Right-Left pattern because every character consists of at least one vowel and at least one consonant. In terms of keyboard inputs per second, a beginning Korean typist establishes a basic touch typing competency much more rapidly than do beginners of most Western scripts/alphabets. Returning to English, the idea of a general use keyboard that is most efficient for all users is a bit of a non starter once the problem is fully considered. A code monkey’s keyboard usage patterns/character frequencies are going to be different from a legal/business or academic writing. Go look at which keys are rubbed off on the keys in a CS department’s computer lab vs the old keyboards/computers in humanities departments. Different keystroke usage/patterns. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/8 "2010-01-21T20:45:48Z")
> [@Old\_Hippie](#): > > I recall the Macintosh computers were at one time capable of switching the keyboard from qwerty to Dvorak and back - I wonder if that is still true? Yes. (In case anyone’s curious, the choice is made in System Preferences \> Language & Text \> Input Sources.) ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/9 "2010-01-21T20:49:11Z")
I don’t have the article, but from what I remember reading, once you learn a particular keyboard layout, one isn’t any more efficient than another. Qwerty isn’t any better than a random placement or alphabetical. I do know that the fastest typists tend to use a Dvorak keyboard, but that’s probably due to self-selection. (I am in a typing contest, therefore, I’ll use the more efficient Dvorak keyboard). That’s not proof that the Dvorak is more efficient, but that the best typists think it is. My personal experience with Dvorak have been middling. I tried it for a couple of weeks, but never got as efficient as I am with a QWERTY keyboard. No doubt that if I continued with it, I’d do a lot better, but it simply wasn’t worth it. Even after a couple of weeks, I was still only typing about half of my speed, and making more mistakes. Why did QWERTY win out? Remington, the largest typewriter company used it, and that’s what everyone got use to. Since other arrangements weren’t any more efficient, there was no upside for competitor to use another keyboard arrangement. The best typists used the QWERTY layout, and since alternate arrangements weren’t any more efficient, there was no upside in being different. I don’t believe that the Dvorak keyboard is all that efficient when it came out back in the era of manual typewriters. If I was building an efficient manual typewriter keyboard layout, I would put the most used keys in the center and the least used on the outside. That way, the more common letters are hit by my strongest, fastest, and most coordinated fingers while the least common letters and symbols are used by my pinkies. All modern computer operating systems support Dvorak keyboard layout. On a Mac, click on the “Language and Text” System Preference, and you can choose from four different Dvorak layouts. On Windows, go to the Text Services and Input Languages Control Panel, select the Languages tab, and then the Details tab. Then click on the Add button and select the keyboard you want to add. Show the language bar on the desktop to make it easy to change from one layout to another. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-origins-of-qwerty/525526/10 "2010-01-21T20:54:18Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > The “typewriter” story does not explain “q” , “u” or “o” at all, nor why most of the letters in the word would be assigned to the left hand, not the right. Ergo, it’s bull\*\*\*\*. One of the biggest typewriter salesmen was a southpaw by the name of Rynwop Querit, and he wanted the “q”, “u”, and “o” on the top of the keyboard, so he could type his name all on the top row. That’s sheer proof that the “typewriter” story is factual, and proof doesn’t get any more sheer than that!