# On the potential influence of ETs upon the world's religions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141 "2002-08-03T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/41 "2002-08-06T13:58:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Isacc (sic) newton (sic) was’nt (sic) the son of the most awesome creator of existence, come to think of it … > neither was jesus (sic) Maybe what you think exists doesn’t, and that to which you are oblivious is reality. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/42 "2002-08-06T14:04:04Z")
Well noely; there’s nothing wrong with changing your viewpoint based on the best information currently available… ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/43 "2002-08-06T14:23:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Well noely; there’s nothing wrong with changing your viewpoint based on the best information currently available… \*\* well in fairness, there is no arguement against, that if there is a god (the one who created the universe) then it is obviously such a mystical and powerful force that man could never truly understand the powers that drive its being. so if IT was to spread a messege on earth there would be no dilly dallying about it. it would obviously understand the full capability of man, and logicly assume that we would one day surpass the (then) current intellegence, and soar into outer space and beyond. and would probably forsee the future problems caused by the vaugeness of the scriptures. if there is a divine creator it is not some old man with a beard like gothic and renaissance artists would have you believe. we must not forget that in the time scale of the earth, man is nothing but a blip, where as dinosaurs roamed fo over a 150 million years, what was your divine creator doing biding his time before unleashing his prized creation, so we could destroy the planet and then have tea with ets. ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/44 "2002-08-06T14:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Maybe what you think exists doesn’t, and that to which you are oblivious is reality. \*\* that could be one of the most intellegent things said in here. thats why we’re best not pining our hopes in that which can not be sure of, come to think of it , can one be sure of anything in this crazy ol world:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/45 "2002-08-06T14:40:23Z")
Quoting this almost completely out of context, but: > [@](#): > > _1 Corinthians 13:_ > 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. > 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. > 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known What would be the point of telling a people who believed the world to be flat (and had no particular use for ideas of a round Earth) that it is in fact spherical? What would be the point in telling a bunch of nomadic shepherds (or fishermen) how the universe came into being; they would have no way to comprehend it (in fact, I suspect if you took them and tried to explain it, then asked them to write it down, you’d have about as accurate an account as exists in Genesis). However, the essentials of the faith (the relationship between the creator and the individual), aren’t subject to technological innovation and scientific review - my relationship with my wife is probably qualitatively very similar to the relationship of a similar couple ten thousand years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/46 "2002-08-06T14:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > we must not forget that in the time scale of the earth, man is nothing but a blip Likewise, we ought not to forget that, in the scale of eternity (God’s own scale) the whole of the universe — its past, its present, and its future — is not even a blip. From His reference frame, it has not yet begun, is ongoing, and is finished all at once. ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/47 "2002-08-06T14:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > [(in fact, I suspect if you took them and tried to explain it, then asked them to write it down, you’d have about as accurate an account as exists in Genesis). > \*\* if we cant trust fishermen and shepards to write a faithfull account of the word of god, then why do you hold so much hopes in their writings?😕 i think the belief of the raelians makes more sense, if we are going to go down this road. ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/48 "2002-08-06T14:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Likewise, we ought not to forget that, in the scale of eternity (God’s own scale) the whole of the universe — its past, its present, and its future — is not even a blip. From His reference frame, it has not yet begun, is ongoing, and is finished all at once. \*\* quite right my friend, whichs furthers the arguement that man is not the sacred chosen one as he thinks, and the belief that he is stems from the writings of men who knew nothing of the infinity of time and space and the universe. knowing the extent of this infinite scale why now do so many see man as a chosen species, the case really being that man simply chose himself. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/49 "2002-08-06T15:01:33Z")
Because as I said, some things change (the view of the physical world and the understanding of the mechanisms of nature), other’s don’t change so much (desires, hopes, love, interpersonal relationships); the faith of the theist is very often founded on the latter group. I have every reason to believe that the ancients were able to sense and understand the presence of the divine in a way that is qualitatively similar to the experiences of their modern-day counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/50 "2002-08-06T15:03:42Z")
other’s ? I swear that apostrophe spontaneously arose. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/51 "2002-08-06T15:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > so if IT was to spread a messege on earth there would be no dilly dallying about it. it would obviously understand the full capability of man, and logicly assume that we would one day surpass the (then) current intellegence, and soar into outer space and beyond. As Gibran reports Jesus saying to Judas as the latter gushes over thoughts of the former taking over Jerusalem, “Do you truly believe that I have come down through the ages to rule an anthill for day?” > [@](#): > > quite right my friend, whichs furthers the arguement that man is not the sacred chosen one as he thinks, and the belief that he is stems from the writings of men who knew nothing of the infinity of time and space and the universe. No, Grasshopper. I’m afraid it furthers nothing of the kind. Jesus taught us to love one another. Maybe love is all that matters. Maybe atoms are not important. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/52 "2002-08-06T15:28:58Z")
I’ve pondered this question many times and I think, even if you were to assume that religion/faith has no ‘reality’ at all, there’s still a fairly good chance that an alien race would have something similar (in that religion and science(leading to technology, leading to space travel?) are both arguably founded in the ‘why?’ mode of thought; if they didn’t ever get around to asking “Where did all this stuff come from? Why am I here? What happens if I do this?”, then they might not ever develop into anything that has the capability to leave their planet) ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/53 "2002-08-06T15:45:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > I have every reason to believe that the ancients were able to sense and understand the presence of the divine in a way that is qualitatively similar to the experiences of their modern-day counterparts. \*\* the thing about believing in the beliefs of the ancients is that they are just, ancients, closer to primitive, in the belief department any way. they would quickly dub “divine” things that science now explain as natural events, such as a shooting star flaying across the sky like an angel from the heavens, or a volcanoe erupting the fury of the creator, or even a u.f.o lifting a man to the sky as if was the unseeable hand of god himself, and so on (just examples of course). so to sense something is not enough, there are a lot of “crazy” people out there, who probably would swear that they sensed the presence of a divine one prompting them to stick a stake through the chest of a worthy sacrifice in some fanatical ritual, but i aint gonna believe them just because they say so. dont mean to stick my neck out like this but is’nt seeing …believing…and sometimes hearing,i guess(depending on how much you trust someone)😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/54 "2002-08-06T15:56:27Z")
You’re assuming that modern-day theists like Lib and myself have nothing more than the dusty texts written by those ancients on which our belief is founded… ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/55 "2002-08-06T16:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > > No, Grasshopper. I’m afraid it furthers nothing of the kind. Jesus taught us to love one another. Maybe love is all that matters. Maybe atoms are not important. \*\* i’m afraid you have misread the context in which i am speaking lib. i am not debating what kind of a person jesus was. from what i know he was a pretty great man with a positive message, what i am debating is in the scale of infinity mainly the the time that has past and is now,man is too insignificant in light of this scale, to be some kind of chosen creation, the coming of extra terrestrials and if they have made better use of what evolution has givin them, it will prove mans pompous arrogance to be unfounded. i have a whacky analogy: if we think of the universe as an infinite sports stadiuminfinite being the number of seats, (hence spectators), centered around a central event,say a baseball game,(which did, not wait hundreds of millions of years to make its impact on a floating rock, let alone the rest of the infinite world). the central event being the prized creation of the creator, will affect the memory of all spectators for the rest of their lives, spurring them to aspire,and bringing them a flush of emotions. say if a man in the crowd drops a beer on the ground, that will only affect the memory of a handfull of the other spectators(hence not being the chosen or central event). mankind is not the baseball game, its not even the man who dropped the beer , mankind is that spilt beer. i told you it was whacky. but really try to consider it. and your right, love is great, but when discussing the creation of the universe, atoms are highly important, love is not, because, appart from man, there probably is’nt a hell of alot out in that infinite space that have the means to think of what love is! peace ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/56 "2002-08-06T16:20:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*You’re assuming that modern-day theists like Lib and myself have nothing more than the dusty texts written by those ancients on which our belief is founded… \*\* i’m sure you’ve got some fancy books and a lil piece of paper on your wall some where saying that you are in fact a theist.i unfourtunately do not have a piece of which says that im a theist. im only a kid, but you still hav’nt left me with anything that has left me stumped. no disrespect, hey i know your’re a hell of a lot more intellectual, and probably have a lot more knowledge on varied topics.what else is your belief founded?😉 sincerely, no offence intended here.maybe i’m just not listening good enough ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/57 "2002-08-06T16:40:07Z")
> [@](#): > > i am not debating what kind of a person jesus was. from what i know he was a pretty great man with a positive message, what i am debating is in the scale of infinity mainly the the time that has past and is now,man is too insignificant in light of this scale, to be some kind of chosen creation, the coming of extra terrestrials and if they have made better use of what evolution has givin them, it will prove mans pompous arrogance to be unfounded. Why is a galaxy more significant or remarkable than a sentient brain? Why is time important when a being is eternal? > [@](#): > > and your right, love is great, but when discussing the creation of the universe, atoms are highly important, love is not, because, appart from man, there probably is’nt a hell of alot out in that infinite space that have the means to think of what love is! A fascinating paradox that merits pondering at length, isn’t it? There’s what’s out there, and there’s what’s inside you. Remarkably, not one galaxy or black hole has shared anything significant with me, but you have. Maybe the atoms are merely scenery for a great and important moral play. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/58 "2002-08-06T22:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by noely \* > **i’m sure you’ve got some fancy books and a lil piece of paper on your wall some where saying that you are in fact a theist.** No, I don’t have any of those things (theist isn’t a qualification, just a label) What I have is the claim that I have (subjectively) met with God. ---
**Author:** ![noely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@noely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/noely)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/59 "2002-08-09T20:12:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Why is a galaxy more significant or remarkable than a sentient brain? Why is time important when a being is eternal? > > What makes you think that you are in fact an eternal being, for instance, what memories do you have from before you were born? > Maybe the atoms are merely scenery for a great and important moral play. \*\* I dont know, atoms we know have been around for as long as we can tell. The word and even the idea of morals hsa only been around since it was conceived by man. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141/60 "2002-08-09T21:29:32Z")
> [@](#): > > What makes you think that you are in fact an eternal being, for instance, what memories do you have from before you were born? In this instance, I’m talking about Jesus. (It was in response to your comment on Him.) He said, “Before Abraham was, I am.” And John, calling Him the Word, wrote, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” > [@](#): > > I dont know, atoms we know have been around for as long as we can tell. The word and even the idea of morals hsa only been around since it was conceived by man. I see. What memories do you have from before man? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-potential-influence-of-ets-upon-the-worlds-religions/122141.md?page=4)