# On the retroactive assignments of historical dates. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913 "2006-05-16T02:24:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913/1 "2006-05-16T02:24:43Z")
The place is England, the year is 787AD. You ask a free merchant or castle guard in what year it is, what would he say? What would a scribe for a noble or king say? What would the noble or king say? And a serf? How does this make you feel? (It’s the “new” history!) Discuss possible reasons why these differing numbers exist, if at all, and discuss how we came to the year number we assign that date today. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913/2 "2006-05-16T02:36:46Z")
From the Wikipedia article “[Anno Domini](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_domini)”: > [@](#): > > Early Christians designated the year via a combination of [consular dating](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_domini#Consular_dating), [imperial regnal year dating](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_domini#Regnal_years_of_Roman_emperors), and Creation dating. Use of consular dating ended when the emperor Justinian I discontinued appointing consuls in the mid sixth century, shortly after he required that the use of imperial regnal dating. The last consul nominated was Anicius Faustus Albinus Basilius in 541. The papacy was in regular contact throughout the Middle Ages with envoys of the Byzantine world, and had a clear idea — sudden deaths and deposals notwithstanding — of who was the Byzantine emperor at any one time. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913/3 "2006-05-16T02:44:49Z")
Just about anybody would say that it is the 30th year of the reign of Offa. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913/4 "2006-05-16T05:58:50Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] Just about anybody would say that it is the 30th year of the reign of Offa. [/QUOTE] Maybe yes, maybe no. There were 6 kingdoms in England at the time and Offa was king of two of them. As you can see from this rather [interesting chart,](http://www.british-towns.net/english/kingchart.htm) he became king of Mercia in 758 but not king of Kent until 779 (and still later became king of East Anglia). So Mercians would say it was his 30th year, Kenters (Kentese?, Kentonians?, whatever) might say it was his 8th or 9th year and the other kingdoms will say different kings altogether. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913/5 "2006-05-16T09:59:48Z")
By 787 official documents in most of the English kingdoms - and particularly in Mercia - were already using A.D. dates (or, to be precise, the _annus ab incarnatione domini_), although this was only a recent development and they were often used in conjunction with regnal dates. The usual assumption that it was Bede who had been the key influence seems reasonable enough. It should also be noted that everyone using A.D. dates counted from the same A.D. 1 (however wrong that may have been). Beyond that the whole question becomes almost impossible to answer, as such official documents make up the bulk of the surviving documentary evidence and most of the other types of documents that do survive from that period tend to be undated. And then there’s the fact that for most people and for most purpose, the idea that the year had a number would have been simply irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-retroactive-assignments-of-historical-dates/356913/6 "2006-05-16T15:14:02Z")
I think they’d all say, “It’s 1,219 years before **garygnu** asks a very interesting question about historical dating. Hi, Opal!”