# On the subject of attacking an armed man and getting shot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 9, 2020, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460 "2020-05-09T08:18:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/201 "2020-05-12T18:26:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Or maybe have less draconian laws in the first place. No disagreement there. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/202 "2020-05-12T18:37:29Z")
I suppose that if you follow the “logic” of the ass-hats who are trying to defend these two shitheads by using the “citizens arrest” and “we thought he was trespassing” and “we done heard of maybe a crime happening here once” logic… Then by the same logic, if anyone notices some shithead rednecks driving around the neighborhood, and it looks like they might have weapons… Then a posse can clearly assume that they are probably intending to commit a kidnapping or violent crime. And these shithead rednecks can be followed and tracked down. And of course, since they are armed, the vigilante posse would be perfectly justified in shooting them in the head from a safe distance. Just to be safe and all. So if you see any white guys driving around, and you’re feeling a little unsure about them… Just perform a “citizens arrest” by shooting them in the head from a safe distance. Seems legit. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/203 "2020-05-12T19:04:44Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > We need trespass laws, and fair application, both. With only one or neither it doesn’t work. Trolls and evil actors will try to use the gap to 1) do evil and 2) look good. > > There is nothing worse for the rule of law, the trespassing law, and the citizens arrest statute, than those two mfs and their lawyers trolling with legal theories. They are the trumps of racist kidnappers. I think the same thing is true of “stand your ground” laws; they can be used by racists to commit murder and get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/204 "2020-05-12T19:53:48Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You got all that from my post? Strange. I didn’t know they had those powers either. They are claiming to be entitiled to that treatment, and we are giving it it’s due and more here, but not so for the crime of assault with a deadly weapon and stalking which was not even disputed, and must be material to a citizens arrest claim. I’m just trying to respond to that with some proportionality as I see it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/205 "2020-05-12T20:00:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the same thing is true of “stand your ground” laws; they can be used by racists to commit murder and get away with it. And it’s about state of mind. You know these creeps are going to make a claim on a legal principle that in the milliseconds before the shots the SOM was “I’m going to die if I don’t kill this person.” I think that was Zimmermans claim. In a white patriarchy this claim is taken seriously, but only when there is a black person dead and a white person charged. This codes into law the “scary black person” as a legitimate legal defense and strategy. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/206 "2020-05-12T20:20:18Z")
The state of mind of self defense. When you carry loaded shotguns and chase people what kind of state of mind are you in as a baseline? When you assault and stalk someone with the gun what’s the state of mind? These things need to be addressed in order to even get to the state of mind in the incident and what it means legally. Was KKK Jr putting himself into danger by doing this? Obviously he was. He wasn’t loitering at a building site. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/207 "2020-05-12T20:49:26Z")
If you are brandishing a gun at someone they are legitimately fearing for their life. If something fast happens and they die and you don’t, can you say “I was afraid for my life” when the only reason you were scared is that you threatened their life, stalked them down a street, and in the moment feel you need to prevent them from getting your firearm, that you brandished on them illegally? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/208 "2020-05-12T21:01:25Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > If you are brandishing a gun at someone they are legitimately fearing for their life. > > If something fast happens and they die and you don’t, can you say “I was afraid for my life” when the only reason you were scared is that you threatened their life, stalked them down a street, and in the moment feel you need to prevent them from getting your firearm, that you brandished on them illegally? Of course, how else can you get away with murdering black people? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/209 "2020-05-12T21:25:24Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > That’s always been my understanding, too. But some of the folks in [this](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=805362) thread said it’s not that simple. To be clear, when I said “told”, I was including written as well as oral statements. You can legitimately tell people to keep off your property by means of a sign. Was there actually such a sign, prominently posted, at this site? I’ve never seen such a sign at a home construction. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/210 "2020-05-12T23:54:02Z")
May the McMichaels’ lawyer be just like their cameraman’s: > **[Lawyer for Man Who Filmed Ahmaud Arbery's Killing Sputters All Over Chris...](https://jezebel.com/lawyer-for-man-who-filmed-ahmaud-arberys-killing-sputte-1843417182)** > > On Monday night, CNN’s Chris Cuomo spoke to the man behind the video of the Ahmaud Arbery shooting in one of the more bizarre interviews to come out of this increasingly convoluted case. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/211 "2020-05-13T01:32:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the same thing is true of “stand your ground” laws; they can be used by racists to commit murder and get away with it. And here I thought we had a pretty open and shut case of “stand your ground” - except the person with the right to stand his ground was murdered on camera, and local DAs just looked the other way. Guess they forgot to put “only if you’re white” at the end again… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/212 "2020-05-13T01:38:44Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Guess they forgot to put “only if you’re white” at the end again… Being personal friends with the DA seems to help. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/213 "2020-05-13T11:46:57Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > May the McMichaels’ lawyer be just like their cameraman’s: > > [https://theslot.jezebel.com/lawyer-for-man-who-filmed-ahmaud-arberys-killing-sputte-1843417182](https://theslot.jezebel.com/lawyer-for-man-who-filmed-ahmaud-arberys-killing-sputte-1843417182) Heh, another do-it-yourself barber in these uncertain times. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/214 "2020-05-13T17:30:40Z")
The Onion’s response to this incident is nice: > **[What To Know About The Killing Of Ahmaud Arbery](https://www.theonion.com/what-to-know-about-the-killing-of-ahmaud-arbery-1843438082)** > > The February 23 fatal shooting of Georgia man Ahmaud Arbery and the arrests of two white suspects two months later have drawn national attention for the nature of the crime and public officials’ handling of the case, particularly after video evidence... ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/215 "2020-05-13T17:50:14Z")
Subject matter aside, may I shake my head at the single most racist username that ever got by the mods on the SDMB? “Yerblek” from Lethal Weapon2? Wait… could there be a link between that and the subject of this OP? “Stop that… that’s just crazy-talk.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/216 "2020-05-13T17:57:14Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > May the McMichaels’ lawyer be just like their cameraman’s: > > [https://theslot.jezebel.com/lawyer-for-man-who-filmed-ahmaud-arberys-killing-sputte-1843417182](https://theslot.jezebel.com/lawyer-for-man-who-filmed-ahmaud-arberys-killing-sputte-1843417182) Pretty sad when the guy’s own lawyer calls him dumb in an interview. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/217 "2020-05-14T03:11:57Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > The Onion’s response to this incident is nice: > > [What To Know About The Killing Of Ahmaud Arbery](https://www.theonion.com/what-to-know-about-the-killing-of-ahmaud-arbery-1843438082) This is far and away the best reporting I’ve seen in ages: [QUOTE=From your link] [ul][li]Q: Why did it take over two months to bring charges[/li][li]A: Brunswick County officials first wanted to conduct a complete and thorough exoneration.[/ul][/li][/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/218 "2020-05-14T04:26:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think the same thing is true of “stand your ground” laws; they can be used by racists to commit murder and get away with it. [It sure looks like it](https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/florida-stand-your-ground-law-yields-some-shocking-outcomes-depending-on/1233133/). > [@](#): > > Defendants claiming “stand your ground” are more likely to prevail if the victim is black. Seventy-three percent of those who killed a black person faced no penalty compared to 59 percent of those who killed a white. “Stand your ground” was always more about legalizing murder than anything else. As long as the victim is unpopular, such as by being guilty of too much melanin. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/219 "2020-05-14T04:49:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Pretty sad when the guy’s own lawyer calls him dumb in an interview. I’ve seen it used by defence. In fact, I remember one case where the potential defendant said something to the effect: “If it’s a choice between being called stupid and being convicted, I’ll take stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460/220 "2020-05-14T06:25:48Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > Subject matter aside, may I shake my head at the single most racist username that ever got by the mods on the SDMB? “Yerblek” from Lethal Weapon2? > Wait… could there be a link between that and the subject of this OP? > > “Stop that… that’s just crazy-talk.” Naw, it’s probably just based on the character from the David Eddings books. You know, Yarblek, the slave owner. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-subject-of-attacking-an-armed-man-and-getting-shot/853460.md?page=12)