On the subject of attacking an armed man and getting shot

Around here, it’s not unusual for folks to go take a look at buildings under construction. Curiosity kicks in I think.

Same here. I mean, if there’s no fence, that means you can go in, right?

FTR I have also, in younger days, walked around open construction sites purely out of curiosity (I’m talking suburban houses, not large sites with big machinery and suchlike). I was only ever challenged once, and simply told to leave. Which I did.

He was an electrician. Maybe he was looking to speak to someone about if they had work going?

The law says illegal to trespass but simply straying onto someone’s property or a construction site is a crime without a victim.

Depends on what you mean by ‘benefit of the doubt on the law’. Whether or not they’re police officers, they are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Regards,
Shodan

Wandering onto someone else’s property without permission isn’t a crime without a victim, because it’s not a crime at all. It’s only a crime if the property owner (or a legitimate representative of the owner) tells you to leave (or not enter).

Does that apply to the dead jogger?

No charges have been brought against him, nor is there any effort to do so.

He should find that to be quite a relief.

That applies to the legal system. If my babysitter is arrested on charges of distributing child pornography, I am not going to wait until they are convicted before I fire them.

It’s actually a felony in Florida to trespass on a construction site. I don’t know about Georgia, though.

YMMV. This might be true in Georgia, for various degrees of “wandering”. It’s not true in Florida, though.

If this happened in Florida you might have a point.

Well…
Florida Statute

and

If there’s another relevant statute, I invite you to let us know what it is. Without some other law, the law I quoted would render Arbery’s wanderings as non-criminal, unless the area was fenced in or adorned with a no trespass sign.

Really, you think stealing something is the most logical reason why someone might look at a construction site?

Like others, I would do so because it’s interesting in and of itself. You get to see the walls open, how the building is framed, how the plumbing, electrical and HVAC are run. Are they using 2x6 studs on the outside walls instead of 2x4 studs to allow for more insulation? What sort of insulation is being used? All of this stuff is interesting, particularly since in most houses, this is all hidden behind walls and some of us live in older homes. So it’s interesting to see how things are done in new construction. For the same reason, I watch This Old House and other home renovation shows (and I’m an apartment dweller, so the knowledge isn’t even useful to me).

That’s always been my understanding, too. But some of the folks in this thread said it’s not that simple.

Yes a sign is required. There’s always a sign, though. It’s posted out front by the permits. Kind of like how, in Florida, cars can only be towed from a parking lot if a certain sign of particular size and verbiage is posted at the entrance. So, as a matter of practice, there is always a sign posted at the front of every parking lot. It’s just SOP. Same for construction sites. There will always be a sign posted.

Regardless, it doesn’t apply to Arbery, since he wasn’t in Florida. I didn’t mean to imply that it did. I was just curious if maybe there was a similar law in Georgia. A lot of posters seemed to suggest that walking around a construction site isn’t illegal at all. Maybe that’s just where they live, because in Florida it can be a serious crime. If it isn’t a felony in Georgia, then it doesn’t matter.

My point was just that not only can trespassing on a construction site be a crime, in some places it can be a felony. I am not familiar with Georgia’s trespassing laws. So I guess my “point” was actually more of a question.

Whether or not it was a felony is what actually matters, because that will determine the defendant’s ability to claim a citizen’s arrest. If it’s just a simple misdemeanor, they can’t do that.

But to be clear, even if this did happen in Florida, even with the trespass being a felony and even assuming the two vigilantes witnessed the felony and knowing they had the general authority to make a citizen’s arrest, as well as the backing of Stand Your Ground laws, I still think these guys should go to prison. Arbery was not committing a forecable or violent felony, so those guys never should have been chasing him down brandishing weapons like that. And, Arbery would have the right to resist a citizens arrest and he cannot be shot unless and until he presents a threat of death or serious bodily harm. So, simply charging at the vigilante wouldn’t cut it.
So even assuming a best case scenario for the defendants combined with a worst case for the victim, these guys are still guilty. And that’s best/worst case.
As it is, there was no felony. Even if it was still trespassing in Georgia (I don’t know), it’s not a felony and therefore there is no right to citizen’s arrest. Unless it’s a felony, the trespassing isn’t even relevant. The only way it becomes relevant is if it’s a felony, because it allows the vigilantes to claim they were trying to conduct a citizen’s arrest. Though, I don’t think they’d be successful in that anyway, as I explained earlier.

I didn’t even know that anyone would think such a thing is wrong. Growing up, there was always construction around, and my parents and I thought nothing about going in and wandering around a house under construction. It was pretty fun, actually, as when people moved into the house, we’d get to tell them all about it. “I know where your pipes are!”

I can see why maybe construction companies would be adverse, as I’ve heard of many substandard contractors out there, and maybe they don’t want people seeing their handiwork.

In Ohio, such “trespass” is a fourth degree misdemeanor, just about the lightest “crime” there is. If you can get a felony just for walking onto a construction site in Florida, then Florida has some pretty serious issues. How often are people actually prosecuted under this law? Or is it one of those laws that exists specifically to be situationally enforced?

Another reason the construction companies wouldn’t want someone wandering around is that they could get injured. That is a legitiamte concern, which is why one should be careful when doing so.