# On the SUV debate (kind of long) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2002, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015 "2002-05-03T05:42:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/101 "2002-05-06T05:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > Yet when I go around where I live in LA county, I see maybe 1 SUV for every 20 cars there. What part of the county do you drive around? I usually do the South Bay/Los Angeles/northwest Orange County region (110 and 91), and there’s typically one SUV for every two sedans out here. Sometimes the ratio gets up to 1:1, even. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/102 "2002-05-06T05:39:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by the\_great\_dalmuti \* > \*\* > > So, do you think it’s okay for uninformed teenagers who smoke for the simple fact that it’s “profoundly cool” not to smoke, in many social circles? Is it okay for tobacco and advertising agencies to focus their efforts, in attempt to “reel in” these poor souls, “in the name of style?” \*\* Can you show me anyone who doesn’t know smoking is harmful to their health? > [@](#): > > \*\* > By the most basic, unintrusive moral code, by owning an SUV (or supporting Nike, or eating meat), you are pretty much saying to anyone else in the world that it’s “okay” for them to make the same decisions as you. \*\* I may be mistaken but I think the vast majority of us actually already eat meat. > [@](#): > > \*\* > By owning an SUV, you’re just one more bad example to all the kids you drive past every day. It’s indirectly teaching them that it’s okay to put your own desires above other people’s welfare, as well as the welfare of the environment. \*\* It is ok to put your own desires above the welfare of others. I bought a computer instead of giving the money away to help other people. That’s an example of me putting my desires above the welfare of others. As for the welfare of the environment. Well, vehicles have become more and more environmentally friendly since the 1970’s. > [@](#): > > \*\* > But if you take that car out by yourself, and go get a coffee, or to the corner store two blocks away on a nice spring day, you’re essentially declaring yourself a member of the Exxon-McDonalds-Nike team. \*\* I like Exxon, McDonalds, and Nike. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As a society, how should we respond to the fact that you own this vehicle, which is not necessary for your life or well-being, despite the fact that you know it is crap for the environment, and actively lends itself to the decreasing saftey of our public roads? \*\* Do you have any evidence that it decreases safety on our public roads? Yeah, I took physics so I know what happens when large objects run into smaller objects. But have automobile deaths been up since the popularity of the SUV? How about injuries? > [@](#): > > \*\* > We respond by thinking that it’s a “free country,” and we deserve to be able to buy whatever the hell we want, regardless of how much pollution it spits out, \*\* Actually the US government does regulate how much pollution a vehicle can spew. > [@](#): > > \*\* > But, they’ve got it wrong. It’s not what you buy. It’s what you _don’t_ buy. That’s how to start making a real difference. \*\* That’s fantastic. Then I’ll continue to buy meat and drive around in my teeny tiny little Saturn. So at least I’m halfway to earning my halo like you. Marc ---
**Author:** ![the\_great\_dalmuti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b2d939/32.png) [@the\_great\_dalmuti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_great_dalmuti)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/103 "2002-05-06T12:53:27Z")
“Do you have any evidence that it decreases safety on our public roads? Yeah, I took physics so I know what happens when large objects run into smaller objects. But have automobile deaths been up since the popularity of the SUV? How about injuries?” Well, the model you described of large objects running into small ones pretty much answers your own question. I don’t have any statistics, but if you look at the rest of the thread, it’s been pretty much assumed that the presence of SUVs on the road necessitates a higher risk of death and/or injury to drivers and passengers in smaller cars, when there are accidents involved. The main issue for me is the much higher rate of emissions produced by these vehicles. The only possible good thing to come out of the fact that the car is environmentally antagonistic is that the automobile industry essentially forced itself into a corner, and the “need” to seriously research, develop, and market electronic and hybrid (semi-electronic) cars. In California, and only in California, there are electric SUVs, made by Toyota(?) and the there’s a huge waiting of people waiting to buy them. So, there are concerned people out there trying to make a difference. You can’t just gloss over the fact that it’s “okay” or (in my opinion) “morally permissible” to own a gas-guzzling SUV just because your neighbors do, as well. "Actually the US government does regulate how much pollution a vehicle can spew. " True, but individual cars are not regulated. I’m not 100% on how it works, sorry. But, I belive that each company is responsible to keep the average emmisions of all of the vehicles they are producing, at or below a certain level. So, as I mentioned before, in order to “make up” for the emissions put out by SUVs, companies are putting much more elbow grease into developing non-gas-powered cars. "I like Exxon, McDonalds, and Nike. " Then I’m afraid we’re at an impasse. "It is ok to put your own desires above the welfare of others. " Where does this end? How to we form a moral structure out of this statement? Do we just adhere to this at all times, and make a running list of exceptions to this rule throughout the duration of our lives? I don’t understand. "That’s fantastic. Then I’ll continue to buy meat and drive around in my teeny tiny little Saturn. So at least I’m halfway to earning my halo like you. " It’s not about halos. It’s about a basic, fundamental respect for our planet, and life in general. Why is it so unrealistic to expect others to care about the environment? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/104 "2002-05-06T15:07:58Z")
Back to the boards. There are people that have legitimate needs for the SUV type vehicle. Yep, I’m one of them. No, a van won’t cut it. Neither will a truck. If I couldn’t buy an SUV I would own a full size 4 x 4 truck and probably a 4 x 4 Subaru. Not particularly an environmentally friendly way to go. And the truck would be much more dangerous to small cars than my SUV. Where I live, SUVs and trucks outnumber sedans about 2 to 1 (very informal survey). I really don’t understand why people seem so afraid of the SUV. We constantly adjust for different driving conditions. Be it city, hi-way, rural or weather related. I adjust the way I drive based on current conditions, no big deal, I do it with out even thinking about it. You can take my SUV away when you pry the steering wheel out … of … my …… hmmm. [Guilda]Never mind.[/Guilda] Point is, I used to drive a CJ7. A very unsafe vehicle but I dealt with it. I had studded snow tires on all four wheels. I did not want to slide into a ditch and roll. It did not do all the things I needed it to do so when I could afford it I bought a Pathfinder. I needed an SUV, I managed without one for a time. When I could buy one I did. An SUV may be more dangerous to me or others than if we all drove the exact same vehicle. But I don’t NEED the type of vehicle you drive, and visa-versa. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/105 "2002-05-06T20:56:43Z")
_… looking around the house…_ Ok, it looks like I like Nikes, fast food, SUVs, Raid, electronic gadgets… yep, I’m fucked. No halo for me, I guess. Except that I also help with gleaning projects for our local hunger assistance program, I support small family farms with my wallet, I’m helping to build a Habitat for Humanity house this summer, I love the ocean and support the Surfrider Foundation and Sea Shepherd… gee, kinda hard to classify me now. Who cares, anyway? **dalmuti** , your self-rightous judgemental attitude does nothing to help your cause, which is a just one. Hearing you denigrate others for their choices only make me want to denigrate yours (even if I ordinarily wouldn’t). Presentation can be everything. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/106 "2002-05-06T22:07:03Z")
Hiya EJsGirl I wear Nikes too. They fit. Hmmm. So does my Pathfinder. It’s O.K. to not like SUV’s. Don’t buy one. If you are not comfortable driving with SUV’s around, I have one thing to say. I’ll drive. 😃 I’m gonna have to go into hiding now. So, see ya latter. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/107 "2002-05-06T23:09:04Z")
OK, I give up. Why are Nikes bad? I can understand (although I certainly do not agree) with McDonalds and Exxon being included. McDonalds kills all the cute furry animals and Exxon commits the evil act of digging up oil for us to power just about every aspect of our lives and industry. But, Nike? What did Nike do? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015/108 "2002-05-07T00:15:43Z")
[Nike](http://www.pantheon.org/areas/gallery/mythology/europe/greek/nike.html) is a little light in the loafers; isn’t that a crime in itself? (worst…joke…ever) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-suv-debate-kind-of-long/107015.md?page=5)