# On the Topic of Transgenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980 "2016-05-05T12:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/281 "2016-05-07T15:26:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Funny you should use a movie directed by two transgender women as your metaphor for why you don’t like transgenderism. One transgender woman and her biologically male brother, innit? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/282 "2016-05-07T15:27:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Glad to see it. Much better than handing out Warnings and closing the thread. When someone comes in to almost-but-not-quite troll on a topic, throw it to the Pit, rather than punishing people for perfectly understandable if technically rule-breaking reactions. bullshit - simply because while the OP is a troll, now there won’t be any reason to have a rational discussion ‘around’ his idiocy - there are far more readers than posters, and I think there was a good amount of info being shared that helps people to learn/understand and grow in their understanding of this subject. Now, folks - see the post directly after yours - will do nothing but attack the OP and others and won’t deal with the subject at hand. I have an opinion on one other reason the thread got moved - but won’t risk a warning by pointing it out - its a bad moderation decision regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/283 "2016-05-07T15:39:02Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > One transgender woman and her biologically male brother, innit? The second one transitioned earlier this year. [We had a thread about it.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=786435) ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/284 "2016-05-07T15:42:08Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > One transgender woman and her biologically male brother, innit? Actually, the second Wachowski sibling has also transitioned. > **[It's the Wachowski Sisters Now After Andy Comes Out as Lilly](https://www.thewrap.com/its-the-wachowski-sisters-now-after-andy-comes-out-as-transgender/)** > > "The Matrix" filmmaker will now go by Lilly Wachowski, joining her transgender sibling, Lana Wachowski ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/285 "2016-05-07T15:44:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It is self evidently bigoted. Upping the rhetoric won’t change his point of view. He wants to believe body identity is a choice. > […] > If octopus is convinced that this is in large part biology debate should be settled. Unfortunately, even something obvious to a bigotry skeptic isn’t necessarily obvious to a genuine bigot. Oh, and, beyond a certain point, the goal stops being about convincing that particular person. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/286 "2016-05-07T15:47:46Z")
The rationale for engaging with idiotic trolls like the OP is always that there are non-participating readers who might learn from reasoned analysis. I have my doubts about that. Continuing to engage with what amounts to hate speech suggests that hate speech is at least somewhat socially acceptable. Another side of the argument as it were. The OP might have considerably more success in life if he worried less about the height of his body and more about the size of his heart. Like that of the Grinch, it would appear to be at least two sizes too small. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/287 "2016-05-07T15:53:30Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Disagree. > > From an article on this subject: > > The statement – written by Dr. Michelle A. Cretella, president of the American College of Pediatricians, Dr. Quentin Van Meter, vice president of the American College of Pediatricians and a pediatric endocrinologist, and Dr. Paul McHugh, university distinguished service professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School and the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital – cites eight reasons why “gender ideology” instead of treatment based on biological facts is harmful to children. > > The first point is, “Human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: ‘XY’ and ‘XX’ are genetic markers of health – not genetic markers of a disorder,” with the purpose of male and female being “the reproduction and flourishing of our species.” It notes “exceedingly rare exceptions of sexual differentiation,” which are disorders but do not represent a “third sex.” > > Secondly, “No one is born with a gender. Everyone is born with a biological sex. Gender (an awareness and sense of oneself as male or female) is a sociological and psychological concept; not an objective biological one.” > > The statement added that self-awareness develops over time and can be “derailed” by the experiences and information a child receives from infancy forward. Further, no matter what sex a person imagines themselves to be, they remain either a biological male or a biological female. > > The third point is that, “A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking” or the child could suffer from gender dysphoria – “an objective psychological problem … that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such.” > > Fourth, “Puberty is not a disease and puberty-blocking hormones can be dangerous” by inhibiting growth and fertility, according to the position statement. > > According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the statement says, “as many as 98 percent of gender confused boys and 88 percent of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.” > > The sixth point is that “children who use puberty blockers to impersonate the opposite sex will require cross-sex hormones in late adolescence. Cross-sex hormones are associated with dangerous health risks including but not limited to high blood pressure, blood clots, stroke and cancer." > > The seventh point states, “Rates of suicide are 20 times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones and undergo sex reassignment surgery, even in Sweden which is among the most LGBQT–affirming countries.” > > The eighth point calls chemical and surgical treatment of children based on “gender ideology” child abuse. “Endorsing gender discordance as normal via public education and legal policies will confuse children and parents, leading more children to present to ‘gender clinics’ where they will be given puberty-blocking drugs. This, in turn, virtually ensures that they will ‘choose’ a lifetime of carcinogenic and otherwise toxic cross-sex hormones, and likely consider unnecessary surgical mutilation of their healthy body parts as young adults.” Lest anyone be confused by the misdirect above, the American College of Pediatricians which is referenced above is a conservative hate group which glommed onto a catchy name. They are not the same as the American Academy of Pediatrics. > **[American College of Pediatricians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians)** > > The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States, founded in 2002. The group advocates in favor of abstinence-only sex education and advocates against vaccine mandates, abortion rights and rights for LGBT people, and promotes conversion therapy. As of 2022, its membership has been reported at about 700 physicians. Despite their name, ACPeds is not a college and The organization's v... [http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/03/22/3762261/pediatrician-hate-group/](http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2016/03/22/3762261/pediatrician-hate-group/) > **[Phony Medical Group Attempting to Peddle Anti-Gay Propaganda to Schools](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/phony-medical-group-attem_b_527772)** > > What Facts About Youth does is push almost every anti-gay talking point and distortion repeated by various religious right groups over the past 30 years under the guise of unbiased research. > **[American College of Pediatricians Defames Gays and Lesbians in the Name of...](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2012/american-college-pediatricians-defames-gays-and-lesbians-name-protecting-children)** > > Along with NARTH, a deceptively named pediatricians’ group is a second primary source used vilify gay people. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/288 "2016-05-07T15:58:39Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Other than the few cases of genetic mutation/abnormality, what other actual"science" is there? A few confirmation-bias brain scans don’t prove anything. > > Do you think that, maybe, doctors and organizations involved in transformations might have a financial incentive to be proponents of their “science”? Tactic #12 - attack the science with no Q&E and no citations, just try to spread uncertainty and doubt. The last time I remember this being done on the SDMB, it was by a poster who claimed to be an “MRI technician” but in reality was some right-winger high school kid. It’s not even an argument, just a monkey throwing shit. Every “citation” you’ve posted in here has been shown to be crap, and you just keep on going. Just say you hate people like me and then go away. At least you’d be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/289 "2016-05-07T18:16:01Z")
Now that we’re in the Pit, I think **DerekMichaels00** is actually turned on by the idea of being hit on by a transwoman, and he’s too afraid to admit it. So he freaks out at the mere mention of transgenderism. That and he’s into trans-porn (or whatever it’s called nowadays) It’s okay, just admit it. You’re among friends. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/290 "2016-05-07T18:24:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Now that we’re in the Pit, I think **DerekMichaels00** is actually turned on by the idea of being hit on by a transwoman, and he’s too afraid to admit it. So he freaks out at the mere mention of transgenderism. That and he’s into trans-porn (or whatever it’s called nowadays) My theory, since the “transsexuals pretending to be women so you pick them up at the bar and then they want you to do stuff to their wang” scenario he’s so afraid of only occurs (so far as I know) in '80s rap songs, is that he’s actually Tone Loc. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/291 "2016-05-07T18:30:12Z")
At least Tone Loc had a decent beat though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/292 "2016-05-07T18:39:19Z")
Stop mocking DerekMichaels00. It’s not her fault. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/293 "2016-05-07T18:43:20Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Derek, you’re a horrible fucking bigot and the world would be better off if someone glued your mouth shut. Nicely put. But I must add: also a right-wing troll, who likes to decorate his right-wing trolling with a preface that he is actually a liberal Democrat. What he actually is, in fact, is one of the most annoying fuckheads currently polluting these boards. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Arcite, the 19th century called, it wants its village idiot back. I doubt that 19th century village idiots were that spiteful or irredeemably stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/294 "2016-05-07T18:43:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’ve reached the conclusion as a straight guy, that all this stuff is none of my business. You want to be a guy, you want to be a girl, fine, whatever. Live and let live, you know? That’s pretty much the end all, be all of this issue for me as well. Why should I give a flying fuck what other people do with their bodies or why ? As for the bathroom issue : I don’t give a toss if the guy in the stall next to me is actually Hitler, either. I’m not there to socialize. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/295 "2016-05-07T18:52:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As for the bathroom issue … I’m not there to socialize. Speak for yourself. I assume that **DerekMichaels00** must do all his socializing in bathrooms, and that’s why he/she/it is so deeply concerned about this issue and why it affects him/her/it so profoundly that he/she/it has already derailed one thread and sent another into the Pit because he/she/it just feels so damned strongly about it. Irrational hate and narrow-minded bigotry is all part of being a liberal Democrat like **DerekMichaels00**. Or maybe he/she/it is just an ignorant hateful fuckhead. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/296 "2016-05-07T19:05:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Now that we’re in the Pit, I think **DerekMichaels00** is actually turned on by the idea of being hit on by a transwoman, and he’s too afraid to admit it. So he freaks out at the mere mention of transgenderism. That and he’s into trans-porn (or whatever it’s called nowadays) > > It’s okay, just admit it. You’re among friends. 😉 Considering how often the anti-gay preachers and politicians turn out to be closeted gays, this wouldn’t be all that surprising. **Derek** , there’s nothing wrong with being secretly attracted to transwomen, if indeed you are. It doesn’t make you less of a man, or less heterosexual, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/297 "2016-05-07T19:16:08Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But how does your approach help? > > Imagine a tall individual who undergoes penis construction surgery and gets pumped full of male hormones and sprouts a beard and otherwise transitions from a feminine appearance to a masculine one. Imagine I see this person following my daughter into the bathroom. Imagine I say, _what the hell do you think you’re doing?_ > > And imagine the response – growled at me in a deeper voice than I’ve got – is, _hey, pal, I’d rather use the men’s room; but the law favored by **DerekMichaels00** means I have to use the one that matches my birth certificate. I’d rather whip out my penis at a urinal instead; but while that used to be legal, now it’s a crime._ > > Who does that law help? This is EXACTLY spot on. And it’s why the proponents of these “transgender bathroom laws” are so completely full of shit. They do not give a rats ass about “protecting” anyone. At all. The ONLY thing they want is to persecute a tiny minority who they do not understand and do not want to understand. Even when given the facts about what is going on, they stick their fingers in their ears. What do these assholes want? They want any transgendered person to just go away. To not exist. To suffer in silence as their asshole God intended. Simply put, they are assholes who want to force their narrow minded, anti-scientific bigoted shit-headed opinions on the rest of us, and to hell if anyone gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/298 "2016-05-07T19:25:02Z")
But you don’t understand! If there are trannies around, DerekMichaels00 won’t have any other choice than to have sex with them! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/299 "2016-05-07T19:36:46Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > But you don’t understand! If there are trannies around, DerekMichaels00 won’t have any other choice than to have sex with them! Perhaps he’s bitter because they have chosen not to have sex with _him_? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/300 "2016-05-07T19:39:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t give a toss if the guy in the stall next to me is actually Hitler, either. I’m not there to socialize. Dunnow man, he’s got to stink pretty bad by now… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=16)