# On the Topic of Transgenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980 "2016-05-05T12:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/341 "2016-05-08T02:06:55Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > go fuck yourself. I already said that one of my problems with transgenders being mainstreamed is that short men, like me, already start low on the social totem pole and get stuck with fat girls and are expected to lower than standards to them in the likely event they can’t get with hot thin ones because fat girls are more desperate than hot ones. Since transpeople have trouble dating, for obvious reasons, I don’t want them to become the new fat girls and the extreme “rape-culture” feminists facilitate because this will further punish oppressive men, especially “oppressive white men” like myself. Consider that your problem with getting a date has less to do with your height and more to do with other attributes that a lot of women would find distasteful. Honest to god, NO ONE is insisting you fuck transwomen, or fat girls, or anyone else you don’t want to fuck. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/342 "2016-05-08T02:18:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m way late to this phase of the party, but couldn’t resist pointing out this additional evidence of idiocy on the part of **DerekMichaels00** : > > In addition to his transphobia and his massive insecurity about needing to obtain an officially accredited “hot girl” instead of just basing his dating choices on mutual attraction, **DerekMichaels00** is apparently also clueless about the concept of racial “passing”. > > Then there’s this gem: > > Dude, wanting a woman you accidentally impregnate to be able to obtain an abortion merely because _you_ don’t want to be responsible for a child isn’t actually being “pro-choice”, it’s just being a self-centered asshole. > > Come back and tell us that you support a woman’s right to choose an abortion but you **also** recognize that a woman has a right to choose to carry a pregnancy to term, even if the man who impregnated her doesn’t want her to, and **then** we’ll believe you’re pro-choice. > > If your support for abortion rights is merely about maximizing **your** ability to avoid fatherhood (just as your opposition to transgender rights is about minimizing **your** risk of inadvertently being attracted to a transgender person), that doesn’t actually count as a liberal position. if she wants to keep the baby OK; but chances are if I get a ONS, the kind of girl who would engage in a ONS is probably pro-choice (esp. with the night-after pill) or a girl I’d date would be pro-choice (I’d be reluctant to date a pro-lifer.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/343 "2016-05-08T02:27:00Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Then again, maybe all the fat girls would be better off dating transmen, giving you a better shot at all the small-nosed sorority chicks. Win-win! Except for the sorority chicks, of course. Added twist: most transguys are really short. So the real problem facing **Derek** here is that transguys will dominate the available supply of fat girls, leaving him with no one who wants to sleep with him at all. Which is pretty much the status quo, I’m guessing. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/344 "2016-05-08T02:31:38Z")
> [@12mgdaily](#): > > If I was born feeling that I was really a dog inside, then had plastic surgery which gave me a doggie looking snout and had hair transplanted all over my body and I started moving around on 4 legs and said “woof - woof”… would you honestly believe I was really now a dog? I wouldn’t for one minute think that. I would think this is a PERSON who wants to pretend they are a dog. Genetically, they are still a person and can never be a dog. For fuck’s sake, dude, what a stupid analogy. Non-mentally ill people do not seriously “feel they are really a dog inside”, because **the genetic characteristics differentiating between separate _biological orders_, such as Primates and Carnivora, are far, far, FAR more unambiguous and sharply distinct than the various characteristics differentiating between human men and women.** Humans and dogs are so far apart genetically that their most recent common ancestor lived about **60 million years ago**. Human men and women, on the other hand, are biologically so nearly identical that a slightly altered copy of _one_ gene on _one_ X chromosome is sufficient to give an XY offspring entirely female external characteristics, so that their genetically male XY status often goes completely unsuspected until puberty or beyond. There is absolutely **no** viable genetic mutation or prenatal environment that can give a human being the brain structure of a dog. **But there _are_ normally occurring, though very rare, biological circumstances that can give, to a human who has the chromosomes and/or anatomy typically associated with one gender, the brain structure and consequently gender identity typically associated with the other gender.** They don’t “want to pretend to be” the other gender: in the fundamental biology of their brain, they ARE the other gender. Sheesh, **12mgdaily**. You might as well be arguing that gay people only “want to pretend” to marry someone of the same sex, on the analogy of a human being hypothetically seeking to marry a popsicle stick, which is clearly unfeasible. Your analogy is just as ridiculously illogical and inapplicable as that one. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/345 "2016-05-08T02:39:02Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if she wants to keep the baby OK; but chances are if I get a ONS, the kind of girl who would engage in a ONS is probably pro-choice (esp. with the night-after pill) or a girl I’d date would be pro-choice (I’d be reluctant to date a pro-lifer.) ONS? Is that MRA talk? Anyway, pro-choice women and also women who are into casual sex can also choose not to terminate a pregnancy. They don’t have to be pro-lifers to choose not to terminate. That’s what “choice” means. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/346 "2016-05-08T02:44:21Z")
And another thing: More and more I’m coming to the conviction that a lot of transphobia is influenced by the fact that **some people (perhaps especially guys) get REALLY nervous when forced to think about how biologically similar men and women actually are**. The biological fact that a tiny tweak of a chromosome or a slight change in prenatal hormones can make a person transgender, or intersex or otherwise gender-“abnormal”, seems to make some people seriously uncomfortable. For one reason or another they have a lot of their ego invested in the fact that they’re Gender A and **not** Gender B, and/or that they’re attracted to Gender A and **not** Gender B, so the idea that Gender A and Gender B aren’t always neatly separated between individual bodies gives them major heebie-jeebies. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/347 "2016-05-08T02:46:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > ONS? Is that MRA talk? My guess is it’s an acronym for “one-night stand”. I don’t know whether the acronym is specific to the same manurespherian types who talk about “laying down game”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/348 "2016-05-08T02:49:22Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > go fuck yourself. I already said that one of my problems with transgenders being mainstreamed is that short men, like me, already start low on the social totem pole and get stuck with fat girls and are expected to lower than standards to them in the likely event they can’t get with hot thin ones because fat girls are more desperate than hot ones. Speaking as one short white dude to another–stop making us look like assholes. You’re deeply, deeply fucked up, Derek. You’re so profoundly fucked up that you’ve no right passing judgment on anyone else. Get your shit together, for real. You hate women, you hate transgender people, you come across as hating yourself. I don’t even know what you can do to stop being so terrible. Therapy would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/349 "2016-05-08T02:54:25Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And another thing: > > More and more I’m coming to the conviction that a lot of transphobia is influenced by the fact that **some people (perhaps especially guys) get REALLY nervous when forced to think about how biologically similar men and women actually are**. > > The biological fact that a tiny tweak of a chromosome or a slight change in prenatal hormones can make a person transgender, or intersex or otherwise gender-“abnormal”, seems to make some people seriously uncomfortable. For one reason or another they have a lot of their ego invested in the fact that they’re Gender A and **not** Gender B, and/or that they’re attracted to Gender A and **not** Gender B, so the idea that Gender A and Gender B aren’t always neatly separated between individual bodies gives them major heebie-jeebies. This would explain why a lot of the hardcore transphobes online are MRAs and (certain flavors of) Radfems. E: The funniest thing I’ve ever seen is that MRAs call transwomen “SJWs” while some of the radfems have called transwomen “MRAs in ladyface”. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/350 "2016-05-08T02:55:46Z")
> [@12mgdaily](#): > > If I was born feeling that I was really a dog inside, then had plastic surgery which gave me a doggie looking snout and had hair transplanted all over my body and I started moving around on 4 legs and said “woof - woof”… would you honestly believe I was really now a dog? I wouldn’t for one minute think that. I would think this is a PERSON who wants to pretend they are a dog. Genetically, they are still a person and can never be a dog. They can only pretend. So just because a man has plastic surgery to look anatomically like a woman, dresses like a woman and uses a woman’s restroom, does not in my mind alter the fact that genetically they are men. And the same holds true for women pretending to be men. I don’t care to what extents they go through in trying to achieve the illusion they are of the opposite sex. They will always be whatever sex they were born. Latest footwear out of Milan this season? > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > go fuck yourself. I already said that one of my problems with transgenders being mainstreamed is that short men, like me, already start low on the social totem pole and get stuck with fat girls and are expected to lower than standards to them in the likely event they can’t get with hot thin ones because fat girls are more desperate than hot ones. Since transpeople have trouble dating, for obvious reasons, I don’t want them to become the new fat girls and the extreme “rape-culture” feminists facilitate because this will further punish oppressive men, especially “oppressive white men” like myself. Apart from the general fact that your an idiot _and_ short, I doubt most fat chicks would touch you of they were dead. Now back to crushing on Laverne Cox, who wouldn’t touch your sorry pee pee either. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/351 "2016-05-08T03:01:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Speaking as one short white dude to another–stop making us look like assholes. Not to mention sabotaging your mojo. Speaking as a short woman who’s always been attracted to shorter/short men, the association of that appeal with the thought of **DerekMichaels00** is suddenly making nunneries look really good. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/352 "2016-05-08T03:04:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > My guess is it’s an acronym for “one-night stand”. I don’t know whether the acronym is specific to the same manurespherian types who talk about “laying down game”. I think he’s saying that no woman ever wants to have sex with him a second time, so he’s just accepted that all he’s likely to get is a one-night stand. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/353 "2016-05-08T03:09:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not to mention sabotaging your mojo. Speaking as a short woman who’s always been attracted to shorter/short men, the association of that appeal with the thought of **DerekMichaels00** is suddenly making nunneries look really good. GODDAMMIT DEREK I mean, I’m happily married, so it’s not a practical matter for me, but it’s the principle of the thing. GODDAMMIT ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/354 "2016-05-08T03:09:33Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > This would explain why a lot of the hardcore transphobes online are MRAs and (certain flavors of) Radfems. > > E: The funniest thing I’ve ever seen is that MRAs call transwomen “SJWs” while some of the radfems have called transwomen “MRAs in ladyface”. Good and interesting point. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/355 "2016-05-08T03:31:48Z")
I think most women would choose to take care of themselves than to stoop to dating **Derek**. Actually, I’m starting to wonder if **DerekMichaelsOO** is trans himself. As I said before, it’s okay, just come on and admit it. No one here will judge nyou. (Yeah, I know dude’s probably a troll. But I’m having fun with this one, dammit!) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/356 "2016-05-08T03:47:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think most women would choose to take care of themselves than to stoop to dating **Derek**. > Actually, I’m starting to wonder if **DerekMichaelsOO** is trans himself. As I said before, it’s okay, just come on and admit it. No one here will judge nyou. > > (Yeah, I know dude’s probably a troll. But I’m having fun with this one, dammit!) I’m just a dissenter of what much of the internet has become on this issue. I am a male, born a male, and will continue living and die a male, as the Lord intended. Like I said; if people who mention the difference in transgenders’ brains vs. non-trans brains can show that the incidence of this brain difference is on the order of how many phenotypical men have Y-chromosomes, meaning its a constant (except for extreme \<.1% outliers), I’ll change my stance. Until then, it just seems to be almost like a last frontier for those who can’t stand that the fight for LGB rights has largely been won and thus is mostly over. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/357 "2016-05-08T03:52:00Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I’m just a dissenter of what much of the internet has become on this issue. I am a male, born a male, and will continue living and die a male, as the Lord intended. > > Like I said; if people who mention the difference in transgenders’ brains vs. non-trans brains can show that the incidence of this brain difference is on the order of how many phenotypical men have Y-chromosomes, meaning its a constant (except for extreme \<.1% outliers), I’ll change my stance. Until then, it just seems to be almost like a last frontier for those who can’t stand that the fight for LGB rights has largely been won and thus is mostly over. So… you’re like a frontiersman, boldly striding forth and holding fast to those life-long beliefs that are slowly, one by one, being proven dead wrong? Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/358 "2016-05-08T04:07:18Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I’m just a dissenter of what much of the internet has become on this issue. I am a male, born a male, and will continue living and die a male, as the Lord intended. > > Like I said; if people who mention the difference in transgenders’ brains vs. non-trans brains can show that the incidence of this brain difference is on the order of how many phenotypical men have Y-chromosomes, meaning its a constant (except for extreme \<.1% outliers), I’ll change my stance. **Until then, it just seems to be almost like a last frontier for those who can’t stand that the fight for LGB rights has largely been won and thus is mostly over.** Must be awful to not have decades of oppression to look forward to. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/359 "2016-05-08T04:10:15Z")
I get the distinct impression that the OP doesn’t even like _real_ women very much. Wanting to boink women and actually liking them are two distinctly different things. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/360 "2016-05-08T04:16:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I’m just a dissenter of what much of the internet has become on this issue. I am a male, born a male, and will continue living and die a male, as the Lord intended. > > Like I said; if people who mention the difference in transgenders’ brains vs. non-trans brains can show that the incidence of this brain difference is on the order of how many phenotypical men have Y-chromosomes, meaning its a constant (except for extreme \<.1% outliers), I’ll change my stance. Until then, it just seems to be almost like a last frontier for those who can’t stand that the fight for LGB rights has largely been won and thus is mostly over. So you just wander into to “Chicks With Dicks” porn accidentally?" (note: not my term for it) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=19)