# On the Topic of Transgenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980 "2016-05-05T12:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/481 "2016-05-09T19:44:39Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You’re right, of course. > > But what really amuses me is how this is all laid on top of the unquestioned presumption that it’s perfectly okay to have segregated-by-gender restrooms and locker rooms in the first place. To not want a transgender person in a restroom with you is irrational fear, but to not want someone of the opposite gender who is not transgender (i.e. cisgender male in a women’s room) is still fine. In fact, it’s what transgender people want too, since they want to use a certain restroom. Nobody says that’s irrational or calls for abolishing this form of segregation. Because no one cares, and no one is harmed, unlike past forms of segregation. People aren’t going to get worked up about something that harms no one and that no one sees any reason to change. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/482 "2016-05-09T19:50:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because no one cares, and no one is harmed, unlike past forms of segregation. So any form of segregation is okay as long as nobody is harmed by it? So if I come up with a truly harmless form of separate-but-equal based on race, that would be okay? Or if you say that’s not possible, why is it possible with gender? > [@](#): > > People aren’t going to get worked up about something that harms no one and that no one sees any reason to change. Who would be harmed if we abolished gendered restrooms and locker rooms? If nobody cares, like you say, why not do that? Would anyone complain? Would you declare their complaints invalid because they aren’t really harmed according to you? Why do transgender people care which restroom and locker rooms they use in the first place? Try as you might, you can’t just make this a simple issue analogous to other civil rights issues as long as it’s laid down over a template of segregation. It’s just not that easy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/483 "2016-05-09T20:01:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So any form of segregation is okay as long as nobody is harmed by it? > > So if I come up with a truly harmless form of separate-but-equal based on race, that would be okay? > > Or if you say that’s not possible, why is it possible with gender? > > Who would be harmed if we abolished gendered restrooms and locker rooms? If nobody cares, like you say, why not do that? Would anyone complain? Would you declare their complaints invalid because they aren’t really harmed according to you? Why do transgender people care which restroom and locker rooms they use in the first place? > > Try as you might, you can’t just make this a simple issue analogous to other civil rights issues as long as it’s laid down over a template of segregation. It’s just not that easy. Continuing this in [the other thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19318347#post19318347) to avoid a hijack, since this thread isn’t about bathrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/484 "2016-05-09T20:04:23Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > For all the morons who’d like to live in the past, is there any way we could actually send them back there? Where’s the goo when we need it: [The Vacation Goo | American Dad Wikia | Fandom](http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/The_Vacation_Goo) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/485 "2016-05-09T20:51:45Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Far be it from me to defend a transphobe, but the answer to the above is “yes”. Certainly not all women. Probably not even most. But for a significant number of women, short men are a turn-off. Back to speaking as a short dude: yes, this is true. Being short doubtless hurt me in the dating scene; worse, I didn’t realize it hurt me in the dating scene, and I spent a lot of time beating myself up over being single when I wish I’d known how detrimental being short was. OH WELL. In so many ways I got dealt the perfect genetic hand: white, male, straight. I’m smart, I’m American, I have middle-class parents. Am I really going to waste all my time feeling sorry for myself because in one particular way I face a hurdle that other people don’t face? Nope. Everyone’s got some problem they have to deal with. Mine–and **derek’s** –is fairly small, compared to the racism that people of color deal with, or the sexism that women deal with, or the homophobia that gay folk deal with, or the poverty that poor people deal with (I know that ain’t genetic, bear with me), or maybe just maybe the gender dysphoria and transphobia double whammy that trans folk deal with. Trans folk have a huge suicide rate, due in huge part to that double whammy. Short dudes? Not so much. Our plight, like our height, is minuscule. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/486 "2016-05-09T20:59:14Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > Cats and dogs lying with each other? [Sadly, I can confirm this has already started happening.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/Guinastasia/Kitties/annieandlexie1.jpg) > [@running\_coach](#): > > Ted Cruz’s position is they should use their bathrooms at home. Completely ban them from the use of public bathrooms. Well, to be fair I wouldn’t want to share a bathroom with Ted Cruz either, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/487 "2016-05-09T21:32:38Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Far be it from me to defend a transphobe, but the answer to the above is “yes”. Certainly not all women. Probably not even most. But for a significant number of women, short men are a turn-off. Actually, in my experience that answer is a ‘no’. While there are a significant number of women willing to say “Short men are a turn-off for me,” I have never heard/read a woman saying that short men are ‘repulsive’, and would expect a woman saying that to be called a bigot. I have never seen them say that the idea of dating or accidentally being attracted to a short person is ‘disgusting’ or prompts an ‘ew, no never’ reaction. I have never heard anyone say that no woman should ever date a 5’ 1" man. The above didn’t ask ‘are there women who don’t want to date short guys’, it was a bit more specific than that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/488 "2016-05-09T21:44:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, to be fair I wouldn’t want to share a bathroom with Ted Cruz either, would you? To be fair, there are more trans people out there then there are Ted Cruzs, so maybe _he_ should stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/489 "2016-05-09T21:50:52Z")
Well, that depends – by “short” are you talking height, or something else? 😉 > [@Czarcasm](#): > > To be fair, there are more trans people out there then there are Ted Cruzs, so maybe _he_ should stay home. That’s something I can totally support. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/490 "2016-05-09T21:51:52Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Actually, in my experience that answer is a ‘no’. While there are a significant number of women willing to say “Short men are a turn-off for me,” I have never heard/read a woman saying that short men are ‘repulsive’, and would expect a woman saying that to be called a bigot. I have never seen them say that the idea of dating or accidentally being attracted to a short person is ‘disgusting’ or prompts an ‘ew, no never’ reaction. I have never heard anyone say that no woman should ever date a 5’ 1" man. The above didn’t ask ‘are there women who don’t want to date short guys’, it was a bit more specific than that. Well, yeah. The OP had laid out some extremely specific preconditions that had to be met before he’d “accept” transgender individuals – and they were built around being able to call someone “repulsive” or describing something as “disgusting” or reacting with an “Ew, no, never.” The OP also (a) mentioned having been told to lower his standards when women he was interested in weren’t receptive, (b) suggested it was because of his 5’1" height, and (c) railed against the idea that, someday, he’d be told to lower his standards to the point of dating a transgender individual. So I wondered if there was a link: did he pick those extremely specific preconditions because they were the ones he’d faced when getting rejected? Or did he pick those extremely specific preconditions for some other reason? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/491 "2016-05-09T22:38:16Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > My guess would be that they were wearing symbols or clothing associated with another religion. For example, many people wear necklaces or have bumper stickers with religious symbols on them, or wear clothing like turbans or headscarves, or body markings like the dot associated with Hindu practice in India. Orthodox Jews, for example, are really easy to pick out from a crowd. My father not only looked stereotypically Jewish he had a definite Yiddish accent. Our surname was likewise stereotypically Jewish. So… Jewish looking guy with a Yiddish accent signs a Jewish name on a hotel register in Rural Redneckville. At that point it didn’t matter if he was actually Jewish or not, “we don’t want your kind around here”. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/492 "2016-05-09T22:39:36Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Yes, of course. They should be expected to hold it for hours at a time while they’re busy running errands, going on a long road trip, attending classes, Etc. I think the implication is that they should never leave their homes. (But now you’ve got me wondering how long Ted Cruz can hold his pee.) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/493 "2016-05-09T22:44:27Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > because short men, in and of themselves, are indisputably real. You can see it, measure it, etc. Once you have that, then I accept social science. 100% of men under 5’6’’ are under 5’6’'. > > With transgenders, what a transgender is in and of itself is still not known fully. Once it is, if it ever is, then I’ll accept the social sciences. When you and others can show me a large, widespread representative sample that \<99% of transgenders have brains unique from both heterosexual and homosexual regular gendered people, then I’ll join your view. > **[Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/)** > > Imaging studies and other research suggest that there is a biological basis for transgender identity > **[Transsexual differences caught on brain scan](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/)** > > A brain scan may help identify transsexual people before puberty to help prepare the way for possible later surgery ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/494 "2016-05-09T22:46:34Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Actually, in my experience that answer is a ‘no’. While there are a significant number of women willing to say “Short men are a turn-off for me,” I have never heard/read a woman saying that short men are ‘repulsive’, and would expect a woman saying that to be called a bigot. I have never seen them say that the idea of dating or accidentally being attracted to a short person is ‘disgusting’ or prompts an ‘ew, no never’ reaction. I have never heard anyone say that no woman should ever date a 5’ 1" man. The above didn’t ask ‘are there women who don’t want to date short guys’, it was a bit more specific than that. A former friend of mine from high school thought like this. She was like 6’2" and was adamant that she would only date a man that was taller than her in heels. Not just because it was her preference, but “that’s how it SHOULD be, women should only date taller men”. She was… a real peach though. She also said America **should** (not would, but should) burn for electing Obama instead of McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/495 "2016-05-09T22:47:48Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > I think the implication is that they should never leave their homes. > (But now you’ve got me wondering how long Ted Cruz can hold his pee.) Okay, I’m afraid that you’re going to have to leave now. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/496 "2016-05-09T22:57:18Z")
［Hangs head in shame］ ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/497 "2016-05-09T23:20:06Z")
> [@oft\_wears\_hats](#): > > I believe that Ted Cruz (and probably the OP) would reply “they should have thought of that before they decided to be transgender”. It pains me to say that someone did actually say that to me in an internet argument on the topic. And meant it. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/498 "2016-05-09T23:30:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > My father not only looked stereotypically Jewish he had a definite Yiddish accent. Our surname was likewise stereotypically Jewish. So… Jewish looking guy with a Yiddish accent signs a Jewish name on a hotel register in Rural Redneckville. At that point it didn’t matter if he was actually Jewish or not, “we don’t want your kind around here”. Heh, I had forgotten that there’s such a thing as ‘Jewish names’ or hotel registers, but yeah that makes it pretty easy to tell that someone is ‘your kind’ from trying to check in at a hotel. And it’s pretty clear he’s not an atheist! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/499 "2016-05-09T23:33:08Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > An anti-scientific, ignorant, hateful, somewhat insane, and actually quite bafflingly inconsistent and incoherent series of statements. You have no facts to back up any of your pronouncements about transgender physiology and psychology, I’ve provided scientific references hundreds of times on this message board, and it beggars belief that you haven’t seen them or are unable to use the “Search” function, so it’s pretty clear to me why you’re actually posting here. > > What’s unclear to me is why your OP and your statements herein are actually considered a debate. It’s really just inflammatory hate speech directed towards people like me. It reminds me of the people who refuse to believe that the Earth is as old as it is, and they’ll keep insisting that it’s only a few thousand years old, because acknowledging scientific facts makes them uncomfortable. That said, they’re trouble-makers but not nearly as personally hurtful as the OP is. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2016, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/500 "2016-05-09T23:35:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I thought it was in 1st Johns. Not Two Corinthians? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=26)