# On the Topic of Transgenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980 "2016-05-05T12:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/81 "2016-05-06T02:38:06Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > you can run an actual scientific experiment in which a person’s words per minute are counted writing with the left and right hand and do it with other tasks, to control for things like playing guitar (which is something lefties often learn to do righty, but that’s an exception). > > With sexuality (as in which sex arouses who), you could give someone truth serum, have a male and a female lap dance and play with the subject, and see if the subject gets aroused. You could… Why the fuck would you _want_ to? ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/82 "2016-05-06T02:39:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sexuality, not sex – as in sexual preference. Do you recognize that sexual preference and gender identity are entirely different? That some transwomen prefer women, and some transmen prefer men? Right; Chastity Bono was never a lesbian. Bradley Manning was never gay. I could go on. Ummm most of these transgenders are attracted to people with the same biological sex as they actually are. And the ones who might be attracted to the opposite biological sex? Most of them are prob experimenting, or like body builders who think they’re small, they just have mental issues. All the more showing that the trans-movement is just some activists sad that the main fight is over (50 state marriage equality, stigmatizing of the “f word” etc.), and making a new fight. It also makes trans the new thing, thus helping the image of gays in the eyes of the hold out skeptics. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/83 "2016-05-06T02:40:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You could… > > Why the fuck would you _want_ to? point is to demonstrate what actually is and is not scientifically observable, if we’re gonna change laws and allow biological men to compete against biological females in sports, etc. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/84 "2016-05-06T02:43:46Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Right; Chastity Bono was never a lesbian. Bradley Manning was never gay. I could go on. Ummm most of these transgenders are attracted to people with the same biological sex as they actually are. And the ones who might be attracted to the opposite biological sex? Most of them are prob experimenting, or like body builders who think they’re small, they just have mental issues. Says you, a random dude who has shown extreme ignorance on the topic. It sounds like you have no idea what you’re talking about and are just making things up on the fly. Why would anyone take your word for it over the word of mental health professionals, or transgender people themselves? > [@](#): > > All the more showing that the trans-movement is just some activists sad that the main fight is over (50 state marriage equality, stigmatizing of the “f word” etc.), and making a new fight. It also makes trans the new thing, thus helping the image of gays in the eyes of the hold out skeptics. Or maybe it’s because transgender people have been treated like shit (including sky-high victimization rates of rape, assault, and murder), and want to be treated better. How would it harm you if transgender people were protected by the law, and could use the bathroom, and couldn’t be fired for being transgender? How can you be so cruel and lacking in compassion? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/85 "2016-05-06T02:46:03Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > point is to demonstrate what actually is and is not scientifically observable, if we’re gonna change laws and allow biological men to compete against biological females in sports, etc. That has nothing to do with “which sex arouses who.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/86 "2016-05-06T02:51:06Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Its only a recent invention of the far-left that gender and sex are different. Just two decades ago, mainstream use of gender only existed to avoid using the word “sex” and making kiddies giggle. Two decades ago, as in 1996? Well, I can understand why this might seem plausible - internet porn was still in its infancy and Monica Lewinsky was just a little-known White House intern and sex was something that just wasn’t discussed in polite company, what with Washington still echoing with the lingering harrumphs of the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. We had other things to dwell on in those heady days, like whether Ross would stay with Julia or reconnect with Rachel, and stockpiling cans of tuna for the looming catastrophe known as Y2K. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/87 "2016-05-06T02:51:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Short (and un-nuanced) glossary: > > **Gender identity** is what gender you feel yourself to be. > > **Sexual orientation** is what gender you are sexually attracted to. > > And **cross-dressing** or **transvestism** has to do with what gender you dress like (I am aware that there are some who make distinctions between the two terms but I’m keeping it simple here). > > They are distinct things. Note that: > > [LIST] > > [li]Gay men are not men that want to be women; they’re men who are sexually attracted to men. Lesbians do not feel themselves to be men, no matter how masculine some may act or appear to be; they’re women who consider themselves to be women but are sexually attracted to other women. [/li] This is an important pint. Does the OP actually believe that a gay man wants to be a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/88 "2016-05-06T02:52:42Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > point is to demonstrate what actually is and is not scientifically observable, if we’re gonna change laws and allow biological men to compete against biological females in sports, etc. Why would the triggers for someone’s arousal be relevant to categorizing them for sports purposes? Are they competing in the Sexlympics, or something? ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/89 "2016-05-06T03:19:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Why would the triggers for someone’s arousal be relevant to categorizing them for sports purposes? Are they competing in the Sexlympics, or something? they’re not, but claiming to be a female, but being a biological male, to compete in sports against females is unfair. Even with hormones, the biomale bones and muscles are indeed inherently denser and stronger. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/90 "2016-05-06T03:22:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > So you keep saying. Yet the evidence says otherwise, namely the fact that every single thing I have ever seen you post has been far to the right of center, often preceded by the same claim of being a liberal. If you actually want to be a liberal maybe you should listen to some of the things that liberals are telling you. So even tho on most issues (see my posts on abortion, LGB rights, environment, economics) I’m not conservative, because I dissent on one thing, I’m a conservative? I guess all conservatives who dissent with Trump on at least one thing are now liberals. Indeed, many of my posts do repudiate things from the left here, but thats because the issues I do agree with the left on, I don’t feel the need to argue or worry that the crazies have been awoken! How come liberal/conservative isn’t malleable to you, but male/female, which indeed are set in stone by chromosomes and God, is? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/91 "2016-05-06T03:24:33Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > they’re not, but claiming to be a female, but being a biological male, to compete in sports against females is unfair. Even with hormones, the biomale bones and muscles are indeed inherently denser and stronger. That has nothing to do with “which sex arouses who.” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/92 "2016-05-06T03:36:21Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > How come liberal/conservative isn’t malleable to you, but male/female, which indeed are set in stone by chromosomes and God, is? You have been shown repeatedly that neither sex nor gender are set in stone, not by chromosomes and not by a Sky Fairy. Clearly, you are unwilling to even consider the \*possibility \*that you might be mistaken. Fair enough. That does not change the underlying issue that _not a single trans person threatens you or your way of life_. Of course, you seem to be unwilling to consider this a possibility as well. I’m sorry you’re upset and scared. Change sometimes sucks, and it’s hard to be asked to change how you think, particularly when you are _certain_ you are Right. Especially when you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/93 "2016-05-06T03:42:20Z")
> [@andros](#): > > You have been shown repeatedly that neither sex nor gender are set in stone, not by chromosomes and not by a Sky Fairy. Clearly, you are unwilling to even consider the \*possibility \*that you might be mistaken. > > Fair enough. > > That does not change the underlying issue that _not a single trans person threatens you or your way of life_. Of course, you seem to be unwilling to consider this a possibility as well. > > I’m sorry you’re upset and scared. Change sometimes sucks, and it’s hard to be asked to change how you think, particularly when you are _certain_ you are Right. Especially when you are wrong. I will accept transgenders if: 1. They and the pro-trans people accept that trans people do not belong competing in the sport of their transitioned-to gender 2. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_ 3. That trans people don’t start trying to pass themselves off as “cis,” or regular people and deceive them into a relationship. I never wanna go to a bar and find out that the girl I’m about to lay down game to isn’t a girl. That’s disgusting. 4. That given their small proportion of the population, their representation in media reflect that. What’s next: Playboy putting one of them on, to show “solidarity with equality?” Ew, no, never. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/94 "2016-05-06T03:53:57Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I will accept transgenders if I don’t care what it takes for you to “accept” anyone. And neither do trans people. Your disgust is not relevant. (Nor is it coherent, to be frank.) . ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/95 "2016-05-06T04:00:55Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I will accept transgenders if: > … > 2. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_ I’m not sure that cis men can call cis women repulsive in public without being called bigoted, so good luck with that. > [@](#): > > 1. That trans people don’t start trying to pass themselves off as “cis,” or regular people and deceive them into a relationship. I never wanna go to a bar and find out that the girl I’m about to lay down game to isn’t a girl. That’s disgusting. Given that transmen and women face the possibility of being beaten to death under such circumstances, they’re probably much more leery of that than you are. > [@](#): > > 1. That given their small proportion of the population, their representation in media reflect that. What’s next: Playboy putting one of them on, to show “solidarity with equality?” Ew, no, never. Good news! They’re not printing nekkid pictures any more, so there’s nothing to worry about there, either! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/96 "2016-05-06T04:26:23Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > …Don’t you ever liken short height, which is common among both sexes, relatively, to having milk breasts and a vagina/uterus, which ONLY females have (except hermaphrodites). Point of mentioning my height is that like being born male or female, god gave me it. I don’t go around saying I’m actually a tall guy in a short guy’s body, blah blah. You seem to have completely missed my point. You have characteristics that might make a stranger think you are a woman. That stranger might accidentally address you as a woman. The waitress might come up behind you and ask, “may I help you , ma’am?” Does it bother you to be misgendered like that? Judging from your response to me, I’d guess it does. How would you feel if people misgendered you ALL THE TIME, every day? That’s how it feels to be a transperson stuck in the wrong-sex body. I don’t really get it, personally. I have a deep enough voice that I am misgendered over the phone fairly often, and it’s never bothered me. I rarely bother to correct the person. But I thought that might resonate with you. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > …2. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_… Dude, calling anyone “repulsive” in public is incredibly rude, and will always be a violation of social norms and common decency. So I’d say you are out of luck on that one. But I will agree with others – no one is ever going to force you to date someone you don’t want to date. Well, except maybe your mother. You never have to date a transwoman. Nor a gay man. Nor a person not of your race, nor a person of your race, nor a fat person, nor a short person, nor anyone else. It just doesn’t work that way. Unless you go around announcing to all and sundry that you don’t want to date type X because of Y, no one is going to call you a bigot for your dating preference. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/97 "2016-05-06T04:26:55Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I will accept transgenders if: > > 1. They and the pro-trans people accept that trans people do not belong competing in the sport of their transitioned-to gender > 2. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_ > 3. That trans people don’t start trying to pass themselves off as “cis,” or regular people and deceive them into a relationship. I never wanna go to a bar and find out that the girl I’m about to lay down game to isn’t a girl. That’s disgusting. > 4. That given their small proportion of the population, their representation in media reflect that. What’s next: Playboy putting one of them on, to show “solidarity with equality?” Ew, no, never. You want the right for bigots not to be called bigots? :dubious::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/98 "2016-05-06T04:35:21Z")
How is > [@](#): > > 1. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and can say so in public accepting transgenders? Are you accepting them as equals? People? Repulsive? What the fuck, dude? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/99 "2016-05-06T04:45:03Z")
> [@inscrutable](#): > > Brainscans? OK, scan the brains of a thousand random people, and you can tell which ones are “transgendered”? Can you discern any observable “differences” from other mental conditions? Funny you should mention that. Researchers HAVE found differences in the brains of transgendered individuals, at least during autopsies. Most of the time, the brain of a transgendered individual usually coresponds to that of their chosen gender, rather than their birth gender. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Don’t you ever liken short height, which is common among both sexes, relatively, to having milk breasts and a vagina/uterus, which ONLY females have (except hermaphrodites). Point of mentioning my height is that like being born male or female, god gave me it. I don’t go around saying I’m actually a tall guy in a short guy’s body, blah blah. Ever heard the phrase “Napoleon Complex”? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/100 "2016-05-06T04:48:04Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I will accept transgenders if: > > 1. They and the pro-trans people accept that trans people do not belong competing in the sport of their transitioned-to gender > 2. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_ > 3. That trans people don’t start trying to pass themselves off as “cis,” or regular people and deceive them into a relationship. I never wanna go to a bar and find out that the girl I’m about to lay down game to isn’t a girl. That’s disgusting. > 4. That given their small proportion of the population, their representation in media reflect that. What’s next: Playboy putting one of them on, to show “solidarity with equality?” Ew, no, never. An anti-scientific, ignorant, hateful, somewhat insane, and actually quite bafflingly inconsistent and incoherent series of statements. You have no facts to back up any of your pronouncements about transgender physiology and psychology, I’ve provided scientific references hundreds of times on this message board, and it beggars belief that you haven’t seen them or are unable to use the “Search” function, so it’s pretty clear to me why you’re actually posting here. What’s unclear to me is why your OP and your statements herein are actually considered a debate. It’s really just inflammatory hate speech directed towards people like me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=6)