# On the Topic of Transgenders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980 "2016-05-05T12:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/121 "2016-05-06T11:55:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Bigotry is not protected speech in Great Debates. Oh please. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/122 "2016-05-06T11:58:12Z")
Bigotry is not protected speech in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/123 "2016-05-06T11:58:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Exhibit A: this thread. Has anyone reported it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/124 "2016-05-06T12:09:45Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > 1. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_ > 2. That trans people don’t start trying to pass themselves off as “cis,” or regular people and deceive them into a relationship. I never wanna go to a bar and find out that the girl I’m about to lay down game to isn’t a girl. That’s disgusting. > 3. That given their small proportion of the population, their representation in media reflect that. What’s next: Playboy putting one of them on, to show “solidarity with equality?” Ew, no, never. Why do you have such a strong desire to say hateful and hurtful things about people you’ve never met and who have hurt no one? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/125 "2016-05-06T12:10:17Z")
Its a complex issue, no doubt there are many levels to it that could have unforeseen consequences. From what I read there are high rates of mental illness, attempted suicides in transgender individuals, though its hard to separate what is from discrimination, family and cultural issues, etc. and what is independent. I tried to look up the percentage of people who undergo a sex change and regret it but like any divisive issue it seems like different studies say different things, a well-known Swedish study said only 2.2%, whereas other ones were much higher like 50% so I guess its still under debate, and then you have the same problem, are they unhappy because they are still not accepted as their gender preference by society at large or is it something else or a combination. I think people should be able to do what they want with their bodies, if that’s what they want more power to them. Bathroom laws against transgender people are frankly unenforceable and ridiculous, and I doubt its an issue that comes up that much. My children are young enough that I always bring them in the bathroom with me, I don’t want them by themselves with any adults besides my wife or me, transgender or otherwise, period. I try to respect everybody I’m not going to treat people with disrespect because they dress as the gender they think they are. I do worry sometimes though when I see things in the news about parents allowing their kid to transition in like elementary school, I’m not sure kids at that age are mature enough to do that, granted a gay child may know their gay at that age, but for transgender kids, I think a lot of stuff needs to be ruled out first, kids are very cruel at that age and its not something that has to be rushed, if it is observed not to just be a phase, but something that is consistent then maybe the kid can begin to transition at the right time and place but I don’t think there is any harm waiting till a more mature age. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/126 "2016-05-06T14:30:10Z")
My better judgement says I shouldn’t weight in on this thread … but that’s never stopped me before … > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > and on most other issues, I’m not even a conservative. But on this, liberals have taken things WAY too far. I hate to admit this, but I’m a regular NPR listener. Seems like every day they broadcast a segment on these _trans_-gender issues. Maybe once every other week a segment on whitie police officers shooting dead a darkie because they didn’t want to mess up their uniforms chasing the darkie down. Hardly ever does NPR address the ongoing rape epidemic. Thousands of darkie children were poisoned so the State of Michigan could save a little money, yet somehow y’all think letting chromosynaptic males use the Ladies Restroom is the most serious problem facing our country? I think if a 15-year-old girl is uncomfortable using the High School shower room with a man, she shouldn’t be made to … and I think it wrong to force her. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/127 "2016-05-06T14:37:32Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I think if a 15-year-old girl is uncomfortable using the High School shower room with a man, she shouldn’t be made to … and I think it wrong to force her. Something upon which we can all agree. Ain’t it a great thing that no one is trying to do that? (Also…“darkie?” The fuck? If that was an attempt at snark or sarcasm, it was a wild swing and miss.) . ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/128 "2016-05-06T14:58:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Bigotry is not protected speech in Great Debates. It’s hard to call my view bigotry given that Americans are split down the middle on issues [like this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/reuters-ipsos-poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-eps-c/ss-BBs1ZgT). My skepticism of transgenderism is mainstream and in the Overton Window. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/129 "2016-05-06T14:59:53Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > It’s hard to call my view bigotry given that Americans are split down the middle on issues [like this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/reuters-ipsos-poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-eps-c/ss-BBs1ZgT). My skepticism of transgenderism is mainstream and in the Overton Window. Bigoted and hateful statements can still be in the mainstream (and were for most of American history). I still don’t understand why you would want to say hateful and hurtful things (e.g. that they’re “repulsive” and “disgusting”) about strangers who have done nothing to hurt anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/130 "2016-05-06T15:14:14Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > It’s hard to call my view bigotry given that Americans are split down the middle on issues [like this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/reuters-ipsos-poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-eps-c/ss-BBs1ZgT). My skepticism of transgenderism is mainstream and in the Overton Window. I thought you were unaware of the split. How can you be aware of that down-the-middle split and still refer to acceptance of transgender rights as a far-left issue? Are you suggesting that the plurality of Americans are far left? That’s setting aside the bizarre idea that if half of Americans believe something it can’t be bigotry. What an incredibly strange idea. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/131 "2016-05-06T15:18:12Z")
Clearly the far-left have bullied half of America into taking their side, along with all those medical professionals for the past forty or fifty years. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/132 "2016-05-06T15:40:36Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > It’s hard to call my view bigotry given that Americans are split down the middle on issues [like this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/reuters-ipsos-poll-transgender-bathroom-laws-eps-c/ss-BBs1ZgT). My skepticism of transgenderism is mainstream and in the Overton Window. As has been pointed out, just because a lot of your friends share your bigoted views does not change the fact that it is still bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/133 "2016-05-06T16:02:41Z")
Add me to those who see OP’s definition of “accept” as so contradictory it can’t stand. Plus for extra annoyance he used “Overton Window” unironically to defend the bigots’ position. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/134 "2016-05-06T16:22:19Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I think if a 15-year-old girl is uncomfortable using the High School shower room with a man, she shouldn’t be made to … and I think it wrong to force her. Exactly, which is why we shouldn’t be forcing transwomen to use the men’s room. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/135 "2016-05-06T16:30:05Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > I will accept transgenders if: > > 1. They and the pro-trans people accept that trans people do not belong competing in the sport of their transitioned-to gender > 2. That hetero cis men can find trans people repulsive without being called a bigot, and _can say so in public_ > 3. That trans people don’t start trying to pass themselves off as “cis,” or regular people and deceive them into a relationship. I never wanna go to a bar and find out that the girl I’m about to lay down game to isn’t a girl. That’s disgusting. > 4. That given their small proportion of the population, their representation in media reflect that. What’s next: Playboy putting one of them on, to show “solidarity with equality?” Ew, no, never. Let me ask you this. Imagine someone says he finds black women repulsive: not, like, the one who happens to be in front of him right now; but _all_ of them, even ones he hasn’t seen. He wants to say so in public without being called a bigot – he’ll only “accept” them on that condition, is his thing – and adds that it’s “disgusting” for light-skinned women of African ancestry to pass as white by simply not mentioning their heritage. He briefly considers the idea of a black woman posing in a nudie magazine, and says “ew, no, never.” How would you reply to him? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/136 "2016-05-06T17:15:20Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Spain. The 44 is when I attended kindergarten and had that teacher who’d make me bunch up my left hand’s fingers to bang them with a _cuadradillo_ (a ruler with a section of 1sq cm) if I used the Devil’s hand; at about the same time, my one year older cousin was having the same problem but his father intervened. Almost all my cousins on that side are lefties; the one my age can use both hands (so can I) but he writes with the left. I had problems for many years with sports teachers who insisted that I had to use my right (since it was the hand I wrote with) even though the left always worked better (both arm and leg are stronger on that side and I have better coordination using the left). This kind of bullshit really pisses me off. Someone who was doing no harm got punished because they didn’t conform to someone else’s notion of normal. When I found out how this had routinely been done to left-handers like myself (and apparently even more recently than I’d thought), I got very angry about the stupid bullying unfairness of it. Later on, I think it helped me develop more empathy for anyone in a similar situation, and it _is_ similar, despite the op’s pseudoscientific attempts to argue otherwise. By the way, anyone wanna buy a [brass TRANS pin](http://picpaste.com/trans_flashes_large-8zMxFKtV.jpg), about 2 inches long? I have some leftovers. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/137 "2016-05-06T17:48:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Please provide an actual cite regarding this statement. He won’t, he’s using Great Debates to launch a direct, hateful attack on people like me because he knows he can’t be flamed here. He has no facts or science, and it’s clear he’s just grabbing random things from Google, or just making it all up. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/138 "2016-05-06T18:15:54Z")
I have to ask an honest question here… why would anyone waste time on someone like this? They honestly don’t seem interested in science, facts, the pain, persecution or fear of those he’s bigoted against and, obviously, he’s only using our board as a platform to spew hatefulness. Why not just let this sink to the bottom and then he’ll get bored. Hopefully moving on to somewhere else more like-minded. I say you guys should quit pointlessly beating your heads against a human wall in frustration, and save your efforts for folks who truly want to be educated. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/139 "2016-05-06T18:20:53Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Let me ask you this. > > Imagine someone says he finds black women repulsive: not, like, the one who happens to be in front of him right now; but _all_ of them, even ones he hasn’t seen. He wants to say so in public without being called a bigot – he’ll only “accept” them on that condition, is his thing – and adds that it’s “disgusting” for light-skinned women of African ancestry to pass as white by simply not mentioning their heritage. He briefly considers the idea of a black woman posing in a nudie magazine, and says “ew, no, never.” > > How would you reply to him? Probably wouldn’t. Not every topic is necessary to respond to. You can choose to engage or not. It’s my opinion that who one wants to be sexually active with is mostly his/her/? own business. If you want to have relations with a turnip, have at it. I probably won’t debate the pros and cons or if you are a bigot or not for not liking intercourse with a pumpkin under any circumstance. That’s all personal business. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980/140 "2016-05-06T18:22:00Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > He won’t, he’s using Great Debates to launch a direct, hateful attack on people like me because he knows he can’t be flamed here. He has no facts or science, and it’s clear he’s just grabbing random things from Google, or just making it all up. No one is forcing anyone to read these sort of posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-topic-of-transgenders/753980.md?page=8)