# On the use of that C word and WHY it is an issue **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625 "2010-04-10T12:27:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/41 "2010-04-10T17:52:31Z")
> [@Ludy](#): > > Seconded. > > I don’t see calling someone a cunt any different than calling them a dick or a cock. They are two sides to the same coin. One is no more offensive than the other. If anything, I think it SHOULD be brought down to the level of calling someone a dick. If calling someone a cunt is so offensive – does that mean that somehow, having a “cunt” is a really horrid thing? To my way, thinking of “cunt” as worse than “dick” is far more insulting to women than the word itself. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/42 "2010-04-10T17:55:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > If anything, I think it SHOULD be brought down to the level of calling someone a dick. If calling someone a cunt is so offensive – does that mean that somehow, having a “cunt” is a really horrid thing? > > To my way, thinking of “cunt” as worse than “dick” is far more insulting to women than the word itself. > > Does that make sense? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/43 "2010-04-10T17:58:36Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > To be honest, I’d far prefer to be called a cunt than a bitch. Would that the women in my family were as easy to please. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/44 "2010-04-10T18:02:44Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Quote: > > [QUOTE=AHunter3] > > For my own part… I can relate to boycotting the use of a snippet of profanity as a consequence of thinking it to be politically loaded; I don’t use “fuck” as a verb because the word is on the one hand treated as a synonym for “have sex with” and yet on the other hand is used to express the violent destruction of someone or something, as in “I’m gonna fuck you up”. Combined, they have the political effect of reinforcing the notion that sex IS rape, that sex IS violent, that the desire for sex IS a desire to do harm to someone, that it is an act of hostility, etc. This is nonsense. [/QUOTE] Frankly, this is the flip side of “it’s a bad word because it’s such a BAD word”. You are totally entitled to disagree, but “this is nonsense” is not a very compelling argument and would not seem to add anything to anyone’s understanding. EDITED TO ADD: I’m not saying this is why (or parallel to why) “cunt” is not allowed as an insult here, I’m tossing it out as a possible train of thought that _might be_ similar. In case it’s not obvious, I don’t agree with the word-ban but I would like to hear the reasoning behind its existence and I’m willing to listen to whatever that reason IS. “This is nonsense” probably won’t be my reply if a supporter thereof does indeed do so. [QUOTE=Guinastasia] . If calling someone a cunt is so offensive – does that mean that somehow, having a “cunt” is a really horrid thing? To my way, thinking of “cunt” as worse than “dick” is far more insulting to women than the word itself. Does that make sense? [/quote] It sure the hell does. If no better reason is given, it ends up looking like “We don’t let members call people CUNT on this board because, well, you know, cunts are such awful things, it is OH so insulting to imply that anyone would be akin to one of them, I mean, like EWW!” Meanwhile, “dick” or “prick” is fine. Hmm. But again, I’m not attributing any perspective to anyone who hasn’t outlined their own. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/45 "2010-04-10T18:05:19Z")
I’m sure most of you realize that the reason for the outrage over this isn’t necessarily the use of the word, it’s the way the moderators handled it. Again, they circle the wagons and their attitude seems to be fuck all of us and any sense of fairness or propriety. It’s their message board, and if we don’t like it, we can leave. Not the best attitude to have when you’re offering a paid service with _members_. That said, I find the word bitch to be much more offensive than cunt. You hardly ever even hear cunt, but bitch has been used forever to degrade women, and I hate that word and wish people wouldn’t use it. Now, if I can just become a moderator, so I can force my own opinions on others. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/46 "2010-04-10T18:14:34Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Frankly, this is the flip side of “it’s a bad word because it’s such a BAD word”. You are totally entitled to disagree, but “this is nonsense” is not a very compelling argument and would not seem to add anything to anyone’s understanding. EDITED TO ADD: I’m not saying this is why (or parallel to why) “cunt” is not allowed as an insult here, I’m tossing it out as a possible train of thought that _might be_ similar. In case it’s not obvious, I don’t agree with the word-ban but I would like to hear the reasoning behind its existence and I’m willing to listen to whatever that reason IS. “This is nonsense” probably won’t be my reply if a supporter thereof does indeed do so. I find it silly to think that when a friend tells me “Oh, fuck you!” he’s implying a deep connection between violence and sex. Honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/47 "2010-04-10T18:19:35Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Use any words you like, though I think that that level of invective is appropriate to the pit and none of the other forums. I pretty much agree with this. If you’re desperate to call Jamie Oliver or Jon Gosselin a cunt, start a Pit thread. I go to the Pit when I want to read people calling other people cunts. I read Cafe Society to talk about TV shows and music and food and such. There’s an appropriate time and place to use that language online and in your everyday life. Just like you shouldn’t say “cunt” in church but it’s fine in a bar, it’s fine in the Pit but off-putting in Cafe Society or MPSIMS. I also think the word cunt is a lot less loaded in the UK than it is in the US. You will almost never hear two guys refer to one another as cunts in the US. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/48 "2010-04-10T18:22:36Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > I can’t get behind the “cunt” == “nigger” thing because I almost never hear two white guys calling each other niggers, but they call each other cunts all the time. “Nigger” has pretty much one specific meaning. “Cunt” is all over the place. You might want to check out the [lyrics](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Oliver%27s-Army-lyrics-Elvis-Costello/10B0BB2F9597FDE9482568AF00206026) of the Elvis Costello song “Oliver’s Army” for one example. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/49 "2010-04-10T18:39:01Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I’m sure most of you realize that the reason for the outrage over this isn’t necessarily the use of the word, it’s the way the moderators handled it. Not that I get to “own the thread” (or junior-mod it) just because I started it, but I would _prefer_ it if we can kind of bracket that (and other meta-issues of that ilk) off from this particular discussion. There have been threads aplenty about how it’s been handled, how it’s been applied, the real reasons for, and etc. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/50 "2010-04-10T18:42:05Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I find it silly to think that when a friend tells me “Oh, fuck you!” he’s implying a deep connection between violence and sex. Honestly. The average 13 yearold Beavis-wannabe who derisively pronounces something as “so gay” might deny that he’s implying a deep connection between bad taste (or lack of genuine worth or whatever) and sexual orientation. But his use of that language is doing so, nevertheless. By itself “Oh, fuck you” may not imply much (I think that’s the default meaning nowadays) but if you also use “fuck” in a sentence such as “Well, did you fuck her yet?”, then I’d say yes, you have. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/51 "2010-04-10T18:43:55Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > By itself “Oh, fuck you” may not imply much (I think that’s the default meaning nowadays) but if you also use “fuck” in a sentence such as “Well, did you fuck her yet?”, then I’d say yes, you have. No. I haven’t. 1.) Even if language were as concrete as you say it is, fuck is a word that has many meanings. It can be used as a noun, verb, adjective, etc. It’s an amazing little word. 2.) But of course, language isn’t as concrete as you say it is. Please don’t put intent behind what I say. When I tell someone to go fuck themselves, I don’t need you telling me that I’m implying anything about sex or rape. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/52 "2010-04-10T19:17:00Z")
Can you imagine someone becoming upset over the letter “J”? Why would they do that? It’s just a symbol? A word is just a symbol too. Getting bothered over a word (that can be symbolic of several different things) makes no more sense than getting upset over any particular letter. And yes, there have been times when single letters have come to have meanings of their own. Anyone seen the incredible film **Z**? But these are meanings that people have given them. BTW, there was a time when I made a deal with another Doper that I wouldn’t use a certain word that offended him if he wouldn’t use the word “cunt.” I have quite gotten over that. For those of you who still find “cunt” offensive, do you find it more offensive than moderator censorship of words that are not offensive to you – “Tea Party” or “Progressives” or “White Trash” or “Red Neck” or “Confederate” or “Yankee” or “Negro” or “Pick-a-Ninny” or “Negroid” or “Niggerdly” “Squaw”? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/53 "2010-04-10T19:24:22Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Can you imagine someone becoming upset over the letter “J”? Why would they do that? It’s just a symbol? A word is just a symbol too. Getting bothered over a word (that can be symbolic of several different things) makes no more sense than getting upset over any particular letter. > > And yes, there have been times when single letters have come to have meanings of their own. Anyone seen the incredible film **Z**? But these are meanings that people have given them. > > BTW, there was a time when I made a deal with another Doper that I wouldn’t use a certain word that offended him if he wouldn’t use the word “cunt.” I have quite gotten over that. > > For those of you who still find “cunt” offensive, do you find it more offensive than moderator censorship of words that are not offensive to you – “Tea Party” or “Progressives” or “White Trash” or “Red Neck” or “Confederate” or “Yankee” or “Negro” or “Pick-a-Ninny” or “Negroid” or “Niggerdly” “Squaw”? More liberal hippie BS! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/54 "2010-04-10T19:40:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Plus, really, the purpose of using that word is sometimes to offend. Using another word doesn’t get the point across. So, just to make sure I understand you (speaking as an individual, not in my moderator capacity), the argument is that people should be able to say “cunt” on the SDMB because it’s an effective way to offend people? Yet, at the same time, it’s being argued that the word isn’t really offensive? Our #1 overriding rule is “don’t be a jerk.” If you’re using a word with the intent to offend someone, that’s being a jerk, right? And if it’s not being used with the intent to offend someone, then why not use a different word? _sigh_ I was attracted to the SDMB in the first place because it seemed to be a whole bunch of smart, _mature_ people. For the most part, it still is. But this whole “I want to say cunt, dammit, just because I can” argument reminds me of 6th grade. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/55 "2010-04-10T19:51:10Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:54, topic:535625”] So, just to make sure I understand you (speaking as an individual, not in my moderator capacity), the argument is that people should be able to say “cunt” on the SDMB because it’s an effective way to offend people? Yet, at the same time, it’s being argued that the word isn’t really offensive? Our #1 overriding rule is “don’t be a jerk.” If you’re using a word with the intent to offend someone, that’s being a jerk, right? [/quote] Absolutely. Hostility should be checked at the door. This isn’t a public forum, it’s privately-owned. If the powers that be want things civil, things should be kept civil. > [@](#): > > And if it’s not being used with the intent to offend someone, then why not use a different word? Because as we’ve already argued (I thought our arguments were good :(), the word itself isn’t offensive. If the word can be replaced with another, they have the same meaning. So it’s the word that people are taking offense to, not the meaning. But really? Being offended by an assembly of letters and not by what it means? That’s silly. > [@](#): > > I was attracted to the SDMB in the first place because it seemed to be a whole bunch of smart, _mature_ people. For the most part, it still is. But this whole “I want to say cunt, dammit, just because I can” argument reminds me of 6th grade. I haven’t used “cunt” anywhere on the board outside of this thread, I don’t believe. But I think an understanding of the myth of profanity is a mark of maturity, not a sign of immaturity. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/56 "2010-04-10T20:23:01Z")
Hello **Gary**. Nice to see a staff-type person checking in here. Just as I would _prefer_ that people not make this thread into another thread about how the board owner / admins / moderators have handled the issue or how fairly or unfairly the enforcement has been, I’d also like to politely _ask_ that it not be a place for berating members on how THEY have handled the issue. (We’ve had thread aplenty in which THAT has been touched upon, also, I daresay). I’d really like your thoughts and feedback on the underlying reasons why the word is an issue, assuming that it is indeed an issue for you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/57 "2010-04-10T20:48:28Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > The average 13 yearold Beavis-wannabe who derisively pronounces something as “so gay” might deny that he’s implying a deep connection between bad taste (or lack of genuine worth or whatever) and sexual orientation. But his use of that language is doing so, nevertheless. > > By itself “Oh, fuck you” may not imply much (I think that’s the default meaning nowadays) but if you also use “fuck” in a sentence such as “Well, did you fuck her yet?”, then I’d say yes, you have. “Fuck you” is also forbidden, remember? (IIRC, **Zoe** , the word is “niggardly” and has no relation to “nigger”.) ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/58 "2010-04-10T20:52:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > “Fuck you” is also forbidden, remember? > > (IIRC, **Zoe** , the word is “niggardly” and has no relation to “nigger”.) You remember correctly - the word is of Norse origin and means “mean, penny-pinching”. But of course **Zoe** knew this already - mere mortals such as you and I cannot hope to teach her anything about the use of English. > [@malkavia](#): > > Using the same insult on a man is a bit bothersome to me because I’ve noticed that ascribing anything feminine to a man (i.e. bitch, cunt, “I can see your vagina from here”) is apparently an insult. On the flip side, if I tell a female friend “Wow, you have balls the size of Texas” it is likely because she’s done something wildly courageous. Weird, that. Well, telling her she had a cunt the size of Texas wouldn’t be high praise, would it? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/59 "2010-04-10T21:23:11Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > I can’t get behind the “cunt” == “nigger” thing because I almost never hear two white guys calling each other niggers, but they call each other cunts all the time. “Nigger” has pretty much one specific meaning. “Cunt” is all over the place. Cunt, please. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625/60 "2010-04-10T21:47:37Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > …Well, telling her she had a cunt the size of Texas… exas exas exas [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-the-use-of-that-c-word-and-why-it-is-an-issue/535625.md?page=4)