# On TV it seems like everybody solves murders but actual detectives **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [February 24, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641 "2021-02-24T14:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/81 "2021-02-27T01:24:50Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > … Charlie finally let them do what they’d gone to the police academy hoping to do. … Running around chasing bad guys in tight clothes, big hair, and high heels? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/82 "2021-02-27T01:29:47Z")
Running around chasing bad guys, catching them, and helping people, instead of typing and monitoring crosswalks. No, it’s not my fantasy of a world ruled by women, but there are bigger battles. You’ve gotta remember when it was on-- 10 years before _Cagney & Lacey_. Pretty much the only women detectives on TV before them were Peggy Lipton and Angie Dickinson. And that’s the extent to which I am going to defend detectives in high heels. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/83 "2021-02-27T01:34:05Z")
Understand and agree. I’m about the same age. It was sexist camp, but it was less sexist camp than what had come before. The journey of 1000 miles … ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/84 "2021-02-27T01:40:22Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > And that’s the extent to which I am going to defend detectives in high heels. Hey, if that’s what it takes to nail the bad guys… ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/85 "2021-02-27T10:59:40Z")
Amusingly, the actor who played Castle is now playing a police officer on Rookie. I liked Castle as it at least made a nod to actual police work. Probably inspired a bit by Scarecrow & Ms. King, where a divorced housewife starts working with an agent and eventually becomes an agent herself. We’ve been watching iZombie which is a good example of a show with a few elements of a police procedure but is far from being a police procedural. Procedure may catch criminals and make sure that the case isn’t thrown on the window due to mistakes in collecting evidence. But it doesn’t always make good entertainment. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/86 "2021-02-27T22:29:39Z")
> [@Boycott](#): > > I’ve been listening to an old 20th century radio drama called The Shadow. The premise of the show, which is introduced at the start of every episode, is that The Shadow, a mysterious unseen figure _“who aids the forces of law and order”_ with hypnotic powers to cloud minds, _“is in reality Lamont Cranston, wealthy young man about town”._ My grandmother lived alone in a cottage on a little lake far from town, and every Sunday night, we’d huddle around her monstrous floor-standing radio with glowing tubes, and tune in… [voice of Orson Welles with reverb] _The Shadow._ As a young’un, I loved it. He really was the first superhero I found, and his “clouding men’s minds” was basically invisibility if there were any shadows he could skulk around in. With that and his maniacal laugh, he really preyed on the guilt of “Radio Noir” villains. And just like the Scarlet Pimpernel or Batman, his “wealthy young man” persona was so flighty that no one would ever link him to The Shadow. (Especially not any bungling policemen, who are busy throwing the innocent fall guy in jail…) I’ve found a lot of episodes on disk or mp3, so my iPhone is full of them, but they are NOT to be listened to in broad daylight. No, they get played as I drift off to sleep, knowing that "The weed of crime bears bitter fruit… The Shadow Knows _hahahaha…"_ ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/87 "2021-02-27T23:13:55Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > One from the UK that doesn’t seem to have made it to the US is Rosemary & Thyme, definitely aimed at the cosy/undemanding daytime TV market. It’s about a couple of ladies who have a small gardening business, though somehow every job involves them in a murder mystery (and the actual gardening they do looks a bit desultory). A similar sort of show - and definitely at the comedy end of the spectrum - is Agatha Raisin, a fish-out-of-water city slicker PR who tries for a quiet country life, only trouble seems to find her just the same. We’ve had both those series in the US, too. I’m a huge Felicity Kendall fan, so R&T was a must-see for me. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/88 "2021-02-28T16:32:31Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > In the heyday of private eye shows, they’d usually have a friendly police contact for the usually titular PI (Rockford, Cannon, Magnum, Simon, or Simon) to both make the actual arrest, but also to provide useful (and free!) information. They did have this character on many shows (Mannix and Barnaby Jones as well) but not Cannon. Cannon was a former cop who was still on good terms with the LAPD. If he needed police resources, he would come in and typically be given access to files and mug books to do his own work. The show typically didn’t bother having the cops show up in the end to take away the perp, either. Cannon would have them at bay, and the show would fade to a tag scene, with the handcuffing occurring off camera. Cannon had a car phone and he did have an answering service, but that was some anonymous outfit, there were no characters involved with that. There were only a handful of times that any character at all, other than Cannon, appeared in more than one episode. It was a one man show. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/89 "2021-03-05T15:08:45Z")
> [@solost](#): > > > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > > It was also made into [a mostly forgotten 1994 movie starring Alex Baldwin and Jone Lone](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111143/) which, despite some pacing and editing problems was a pretty entertaining pulp thriller with scenery chewing performances by Lone and sycophantic flunky Tim Curry. > > Thanks for the rec! Was totallly off my radar-- if I had ever heard about it, I since forgot it existed. I’m glad they kept it in the 30s rather than update it to then-90s present day. I’ll have to catch it when we subscribe to HBO Max soon… Follow up: thanks again @Stranger_On_A_Train, watched The Shadow last night. Fun movie! I thought maybe I had watched it and forgotten about it, but it was brand new to me. Was it not advertised much at the time? Clearly a lot of money was put into making the movie. It’s got some nice cinematography. I thought the pacing was ok- the story and action moved along nicely. Touches of humor that didn’t cross too far into campiness. Nice to see Penelope Ann Miller decked out in 30s style. I had a bit of a crush on early / mid 90s PAM. She was an up and coming ‘it’ girl for a minute, but it didn’t take unfortunately. Some random observations in which I’ll try not to get too spoilery about a 27 yo movie: So I knew enough about the Shadow backstory to be aware that he got his power to cloud men’s minds from The Mysterious Orient, but I didn’t realize that it wasn’t to avenge dead parents or something Batman-style, he went off to Tibet to happily live his best evil life as a drug lord until a Tibetan holy man forced him into a redemption arc as The Shadow. Makes sense I guess- that’s how he knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men! it’s a real crossroads in terms of movie making techniques—- plenty of practical effects, Harryhausen-style stop motion animation for the bitey face on the handle of the magic dagger, a giant matte painting for the backdrop of 30s Times Square in one scene (I wonder if that was an intentional nod to movies of the past, because it seemed very obvious), even what looked like a bit of early CGI of the view of the cartridge as it travelled through the Rube Goldbergesque vacuum tube. Surprised it didn’t do better and produce a sequel or two. Maybe it was too much like the Indiana Jones movies and gave the audiences a ‘been there done that’ vibe…? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/90 "2021-03-05T15:25:57Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Was it not advertised much at the time? Clearly a lot of money was put into making the movie. It’s got some nice cinematography. I thought the pacing was ok- the story and action moved along nicely. Touches of humor that didn’t cross too far into campiness. As I recall, it was a fairly prominent “event” movie, but it just didn’t click with audiences. My recollection is that it was launched with significant fanfare but just didn’t stay in theaters for long. There was, for whatever reason, a number of retro-pulp/comic strip/comic book movies released in that general period. I think _The Phantom_ met the same fate, but it seems to have had more success as a cult classic. _Dick Tracy_ was even higher profile, but I think it’s only more prominent now as a more prominent failure. I think of that batch, _The Rocketeer_ probably did the best, both initially and on video, but that was actually an adaptation of a modern comic book in the style of the old Golden Age comics and pulps. There were also attempts to relaunch Flash Gordon, Mandrake the Magician, and others as animated series, that didn’t get much traction. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/91 "2021-03-05T16:12:33Z")
You made me smile, because as little tykes, my kids would take me to the neighborhood video rental shop and beg for the same movie over and over. We must have watched _The Rocketeer_ fifty times… And I probably watched _The Shadow_ with them forty times. I agree with solost, it was very well cast with well done sfx (Alex Baldwin’s face contorts when he makes the change from Lamont Cranston to The Shadow). And nice narrative touches, like “if The Shadow saves your life, you need to help him save someone else’s in the future”, right out of the original William Gibson pulps. And it had… well, cleverness. The reveal of the villain’s hideout was especially well done… (Since the magic power is to “cloud men’s minds”, it’s a vacant lot in the middle of Manhattan… but if you can free your mind of illusion, clouds drift away to reveal a deco skyscraper. So fun! I was squealing with delight just like my kids). ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/92 "2021-03-05T16:22:19Z")
You weren’t kidding about _Cannon_. William Conrad – 192 episodes The next highest Patrick Culliton – 8 episodes (playing different characters) > [@wikipedia](#): > > There were very few recurring characters. In the first season, [Martin Sheen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Sheen) appeared twice as ex-policeman Jerry Warton, but the character did not extend beyond the first year. In fact, Sheen guest-starred in the third season as a completely different character: a lawyer who murdered Cannon’s client. The only other actors to appear in multiple episodes as the same character were [Charles Bateman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bateman_(actor)) (five episodes as Lieutenant Paul Tarcher) and Arthur Adams (three episodes as Officer Bill Murray). I wonder if that is some sort of record (new thread soon) Brian ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/93 "2021-03-05T16:35:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > My Mom used to go on about the Scarlet Pimpernel on the radio in the 1930s. > > That’s a name I’ve not heard in a very long time. … A very long time. It’s probably due for a revival, especially since in the first novel the hero of the book is his wife Marguerite. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/94 "2021-03-05T17:06:41Z")
The 1941 movie with Leslie Howard is wonderful. The Pimpernel saves families from the guillotine during the French Revolution, but his secret identity (“Lord Percy”? Been a while\*…) is so foppish that even his wife has trouble believing he’s heterosexual. \*Haven’t seen it since… the early seventies. My mom wanted us to go to a Sousa concert, but Dad saved us - took me and my sister to see… The Scarlet Pimpernel! To this day, she and I recite Sir Percy’s “doggerel”: _They seek him heyah,_ _They seek him theyah,_ _Those Frenchies seek him everywhayah…_ _Is he in Heaven, or is he in Hell,_ _Thet demmed elusive Pimpernel!_ [Ah! Found the clip!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD0cE8B5Dj0) The dandiness is delightful, and the rapid fire dialog: “Who sir? You sir?”“Me sir!”“No, sir!”“Yes, sir!” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/95 "2021-03-05T19:08:49Z")
I first saw the 1941 movie years ago at the Illuzion Cinema in Moscow. They have a huge collection of old films, many of which were brought back from Europe as war booty. I’ve seen it a number of times since, mostly between 02:00 and 04:00 on CHCH. Howard is one of my all-time favorite actors. If you’re not aware of **this movie** (also from 1941), it’s an interesting (and sometimes amusing) variation on the “Pimpernel” theme: > **['Pimpernel' Smith (1941) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034027/?ref_=tt_urv)** > > 'Pimpernel' Smith: Directed by Leslie Howard. With Leslie Howard, Allan Jeayes, Francis L. Sullivan, Mary Morris. Professor Horatio Smith, while seeming very unassuming, rescues victims of Nazi persecution during World War II. ---
**Author:** ![anny\_m](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@anny\_m](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anny_m)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/96 "2021-03-06T17:59:23Z")
Has anyone mentioned the attorneys who solve the crime from the courtroom? You’d think that after the fifth or sixth time Lt. Tragg told Perry Mason “We have your client dead to rights” that he’d just not bother arresting anyone that Perry represented. I think Matlock usually did the same thing – getting someone else in the courtroom to confess to the crime. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/97 "2021-03-06T19:03:03Z")
I’ve been watching _ **Matlock** _ a lot lately (for the first time). His investigations are way better than the cops’! ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/98 "2021-03-06T19:06:49Z")
> [@anny\_m](#): > > Has anyone mentioned the attorneys who solve the crime from the courtroom? I mentioned in my OP a show called “Close to Home” in which a team of prosecutors would seem to do a lot of detective work that presumably should’ve already been done for them. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/99 "2021-04-24T23:59:52Z")
> [@solost](#): > > It got me thinking about how much TV loves to cast anybody but actual detectives as the ones who solve the murders. And didn’t the detectives who had to deal with Miss Marple know it! “How did you first come to suspect him, inspector?”, “Well Miss Marple, he involved himself in the case right from the start. Normal people don’t do that.” “What evidence do you think I might find Sir?” “I don’t know, but one thing I do know you will find: Miss Marple. She’s always happens to be there.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641/100 "2021-04-25T00:09:44Z")
Of course the fact Miss Marple always involves _herself_ in the cases right from the start somehow doesn’t cause the good Inspector to suspect her. That woman has been involved in almost as many murders as a standard 3rd World tinpot dictator. I say she did them all. Or at least most of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-tv-it-seems-like-everybody-solves-murders-but-actual-detectives/933641.md?page=6)