# On vitriol and the state of America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 10, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295 "2019-06-10T13:11:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/41 "2019-06-10T19:54:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > In the meantime, if people are being subjected to unacceptable state predation, they should remove themselves from that situation. There is a desire amongst the evangelical left to make martyrs out of everyone instead of actually helping them out in a practical way. Who, among the evangelical left, is preventing someone from moving? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/42 "2019-06-10T20:00:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If you come to WillFarnaby for advice This actually made me laugh out loud. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/43 "2019-06-10T20:02:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So instead of all that needless protesting against institutional racism and segregation in the south, black folks should have just packed their bags and moved north? Many of them did just that and formed thriving communities. Indeed, blacks living in the North enjoy a higher standard of living to this day. They also are more likely to have black government representatives, which is not something I care about but you may like. It’s almost like history is poorly taught in public schools, though I know I picked this up there. > **[Great Migration (African American)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migration_(African_American))** > > The Great Migration, sometimes known as the Great Northward Migration or the Black Migration, was the movement of six million African Americans out of the rural Southern United States to the urban Northeast, Midwest, and West between 1910 and 1970. It was substantially caused by poor economic and social conditions due to prevalent racial segregation and discrimination in the Southern states where Jim Crow laws were upheld. In particular, continued lynchings motivated a portion of the mi From ... > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Who, among the evangelical left, is preventing someone from moving? Many here are suggesting that moving is beneath the dignity of minorities and that they should stay and advocate for their minority positions. Perhaps I am misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/44 "2019-06-10T20:12:36Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I don’t have to tolerate bigots anymore. > > I don’t have to play “live and let live” with the bigots anymore. They are the ones who have to change, not everyone else. Hear, hear. These are people who want all the freedom in the world but can’t stand the thought that someone they don’t like has freedom also and would rather we all suffer if they can’t get their way. There are not good people on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/45 "2019-06-10T20:16:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Not everyone who has a point of view or wears a particular symbol does so precisely how you interpret that point of view. If their point of view is that I should die, I’m going to interpret their point of view as a death threat. Pretending that wishing to kill an entire class of people is just a difference of opinion is suicidal. And criticizing someone who responds with ‘vitriol’ to a death threat for spreading too much hatred by calling out the death threat while defending the person making death threats is absurdly backwards. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/46 "2019-06-10T20:21:32Z")
There’s basically nobody in the US that advocates taking proactive measures to kill other groups. There are some secessionist and ethnic nationalist types who would rather live separately, but let’s be real. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/47 "2019-06-10T20:31:21Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There’s basically nobody in the US that advocates taking proactive measures to kill other groups. There are plenty. And they have acted. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/48 "2019-06-10T20:37:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There’s basically nobody in the US that advocates taking proactive measures to kill other groups. There are some secessionist and ethnic nationalist types who would rather live separately, but let’s be real. Are you kidding? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/49 "2019-06-10T20:45:16Z")
Not even the fringe groups support murder. Check your sources. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/50 "2019-06-10T20:47:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There’s basically nobody in the US that advocates taking proactive measures to kill other groups. There are some secessionist and ethnic nationalist types who would rather live separately, but let’s be real. Republicans are taking proactive measures to make it safe to kill people. This one has been around for a while: [Gay panic defense - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense) , allowing someone to dodge murder charges because they were perturbed at discovering that someone was LGBT, and this is what they’re currently pushing [How the ‘Religious Freedom Division’ Threatens LGBT Health—and Science | WIRED](https://www.wired.com/story/how-the-religious-freedom-division-threatens-lgbt-healthand-science/) to protect healthcare providers who refuse to provide healthcare to people. I’m sure you’ve got some Libertarian-style ‘paramedics letting someone bleed out doesn’t count as killing them’ claim, but I don’t accept that weird set of definitions. Anyone wearing a Swastika or other Neo Nazi regalia is explicitly supporting genocide. Anyone wearing a Confederate flag is explicitly supporting slavery. So I’ll need a cite for your claim that none of these things are happening. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/51 "2019-06-10T20:54:42Z")
none of those things are proactive measures to kill people. I don’t dispute that people wear Nazi symbols for example. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/52 "2019-06-10T20:55:42Z")
Perhaps you can cite where these groups advocate for murder. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/53 "2019-06-10T20:58:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Perhaps you can cite where these groups advocate for murder. Do you know what a Nazi is? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/54 "2019-06-10T21:01:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you know what a Nazi is? Yes I’m so knowledgeable I can tell the difference between modern Nazis and others. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/55 "2019-06-10T21:40:24Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I don’t have to tolerate bigots anymore. > > I don’t have to play “live and let live” with the bigots anymore. They are the ones who have to change, not everyone else. This makes me think of another thing; today’s Progressives / Left have the attitude that bigotry/racism are THE cardinal sin- it’s ok to do a lot of other stuff, but woe be unto you if you are a racist and/or bigot in any way. Not everyone prioritizes this in the same way- they may not be _for_ bigotry or racism, but they may feel that it’s small potatoes vs. ending abortion, for example. That doesn’t make them bigots or racists because they think that way- it just means that they feel like they have bigger fish to fry. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/56 "2019-06-10T21:46:01Z")
> [@bump](#): > > … today’s Progressives / Left have the attitude that bigotry/racism are THE cardinal sin- it’s ok to do a lot of other stuff, but woe be unto you if you are a racist and/or bigot in any way. > > Not everyone prioritizes this in the same way- they may not be _for_ bigotry or racism, but they may feel that it’s small potatoes vs. ending abortion, for example. > > … Certainly, walking and chewing gum at the same time can be a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/57 "2019-06-11T02:09:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes I’m so knowledgeable I can tell the difference between modern Nazis and others. What is your definition of a modern Nazi? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/58 "2019-06-11T02:19:54Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There’s basically nobody in the US that advocates taking proactive measures to kill other groups. Neither did the NSDAP, until Wannsee. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/59 "2019-06-11T03:19:28Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If you come to WillFarnaby for advice I would suggest the following: > > Yes they should move to an area where the society is accepting. They will have near zero impact getting involved with politics in an area where they are experiencing problems from the state. > > If you like your local area, move to a suburb where the likelihood of your being harassed decreases. This is not too expensive considering the alternative, which is to be harassed by police and protest while making near zero impact. > > Move to a place there the climate is more conducive to your thriving. Not expensive considering the alternative, which is to be a victim of climate while protesting and having near zero impact on policy and zero impact on climate. > > Homeschool or find alternative methods of educating your children. Very easy stuff people have been doing since the beginning of mankind. > > Life isn’t fair. You can be an angry victim or a joyous survivor. You tell people to join your pet causes because you want more numbers on your side. It’s simply not in their interest and it is not a rational means to get they actually want, which is to be free from state predation. If they want the thrill of screaming protest slogans and getting victimized in a barely veiled imitation of Christ Jesus, it is of course a rational approach to achieve that. This “answer” suggests that if you do not wish to live in a statist or otherwise non-libertarian society, you should just move to a good libertarian nation. (Not that i believe that your answer was serious or that you are participating in this discussion with any serious intent. Telling people to move to places where they will not be oppressed when no such places exist simply to avoid political disruption is a dumb idea. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295/60 "2019-06-11T05:21:15Z")
I don’t think it can be denied that through Gerrymandering, voter suppression and the state electoral College one party in particular doesn’t want a public communal voice to be heard. My hope is it will be regardless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-vitriol-and-the-state-of-america/835295.md?page=4)