# On what I said, and what I would have said if I didn't have issues to work through. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2002, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203 "2002-04-01T14:55:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/101 "2002-04-04T04:21:10Z")
Doghouse, it did sound like you were using it in the insulting and childish meaning. I don’t blame wring or anybody else for misunderstanding you because I did, too. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/102 "2002-04-04T04:40:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > I think you did suggest that I become involved, and that the population at large become involved also - to quote your words: > (emphasis mine) > > “He could go back to his duties at some point in the future when he, we, and the administrators agree that the time is right.” True, but (1) that refers to his decision to come back, not to resign in the first place, and (2) if it were me, I would ask my fellow moderators and administrators for their advice, not in order to gain “official” approval, but rather to benefit from their perspective and experience on what’s obviously a difficult issue. I was sort of envisioning a mutually supportive discussion among the principals rather than an exercise of leaping bureaucratic hurdles; you seem to have assumed that the opposite was the case. In any case, you misunderstood me or I didn’t express my meaning well enough to begin with. > [@](#): > > I disagree with you. In any company I’ve worked with, the decision to choose managers / CEOs / etc… is not done by popular vote, but by the current managers. Well, this is a whole other debate, but even in a traditional corporate hierarchy, CEOs (and, to a lesser extent, their key subordinates) _are_ chosen by a board of directors, who in turn are _elected_ by shareholders. Your statement is kind of like saying that Tony Blair doesn’t need to think about what British subjects think about his performance, since after all they don’t elect him per se. And I’m sure that many, possibly most, companies still adopt an authoritarian, hierachical organizational model. That doesn’t refute my point, though, that the model is nonetheless suboptimal. Aren’t the more successful companies establishing (or “reinventing”) themselves as relatively “flat” organizations? > [@](#): > > In addition, I will state that if we were totally unconcerned with opinions of the Teeming Millions, we would not have bothered to close the previous thread or discussed it amongst ourselves, as the staff did. If we wanted to cover up the issue, we would close this thread also and post “discussion of the matter must cease.” I have not noticed that this has happened. All the same, you _did_ close the original thread and forbid any discussion of the issue until the administrators could get together with Manhattan and get y’all’s stories straight. At least, that’s what it looked like to many of us. And didn’t C K Dexter Haven try to forestall any further discussion of manhattan’s behavior early in this thread by pronouncing, “we trust that’s the end of that”? **dropzone:** I guess I didn’t realize that it came across that way. If it did, I do apologize to you all and to manhattan. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/103 "2002-04-04T04:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Um, hello?? Did you fail reading comprehension? Nobody has said that. It is obvious that the catholic church (the organization, not a sweeping generalization, including everyone to the last member) has condoned and defended both the crime, and the clergy who have committed it. \*\* Irony check. If you’re saying that the church has defended and condoned pedophilia, obviously you’ve ‘failed to comprehend’ something. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/104 "2002-04-04T04:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\*And didn’t C K Dexter Haven try to forestall any further discussion of manhattan’s behavior early in this thread by pronouncing, “we trust that’s the end of that”? \*\* Well, even if he TRIED that, it never works around here. Dex was just pissing in the wind if he thought it would work. What we need is a good hijack to turn the thread into something so silly that Ed comes along and closes it in disgust. I’ve had some success with it but I can’t do it alone. Anybody care to help? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/105 "2002-04-04T05:06:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > Well, even if he TRIED that, it never works around here. Dex was just pissing in the wind if he thought it would work. Well, that kind of goes to my point that it’s silly for the administrators to kid themselves that they can run this board in an authoritarian style. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/106 "2002-04-04T05:31:55Z")
Yeah, but it’s their board. They can try if they want. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/107 "2002-04-04T11:02:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > True, but (1) that refers to his decision to come back, not to resign in the first place, and (2) if it were me, I would ask my fellow moderators and administrators for their advice, not in order to gain “official” approval, but rather to benefit from their perspective and experience on what’s obviously a difficult issue. Are you claiming to know what has happened behind the scenes? As a matter of fact we have discussed internally how to resolve this issue. > [@](#): > > Your statement is kind of like saying that Tony Blair doesn’t need to think about what British subjects think about his performance, since after all they don’t elect him per se. Not true. I mentioned in the previous post that we do consider opinions of the posters at the SDMB. Otherwise why would we discuss the issue amongst ourselves at all? > [@](#): > > And I’m sure that many, possibly most, companies still adopt an authoritarian, hierachical organizational model. That doesn’t refute my point, though, that the model is nonetheless suboptimal. Aren’t the more successful companies establishing (or “reinventing”) themselves as relatively “flat” organizations? If you want to discuss whether or not the method we use for choosing moderators at the SDMB is suboptimal I suggest that would be a conversation for another thread. I think it is a successful mix of authoritarian vs. democracy. Can you name a company where managers are chosen by popular vote? > [@](#): > > All the same, you _did_ close the original thread and forbid any discussion of the issue until the administrators could get together with Manhattan and get y’all’s stories straight. Weren’t you the one encouraging us to confer amongst ourselves to discuss the issue? There is no need to get our stories straight. Or are you accusing all of us of lying? > [@](#): > > And didn’t C K Dexter Haven try to forestall any further discussion of manhattan’s behavior early in this thread by pronouncing, “we trust that’s the end of that”? C K Dexter Haven was probably hoping that a subject that has caused a lot of hurt feelings would die off. He was not trying to say “People stop discussing this or else.” If you view that as the authoritarian model then again I will have to disagree. I don’t see why moderators / administrators should not be able to express a sincere wish that the controversy would be resolved. One of the most offended parties (Guinastasia) has herself asked that people let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/108 "2002-04-04T12:06:49Z")
For a first offense, I could possibly see simply taking away his moderator status and letting him off with a warning. Saying something that is a direct violation of board rules disqualifies you from being part of the administration of said board in my opinion, but we let other long-time posters off on first offenses and I’d say he should be allowed to continue to post. This isn’t his first offense, though, and I can’t understand why he is still allowed to be here. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/109 "2002-04-04T12:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Well, even if he TRIED that, it never works around here. Dex was just pissing in the wind if he thought it would work. What we need is a good hijack to turn the thread into something so silly that Ed comes along and closes it in disgust. I’ve had some success with it but I can’t do it alone. Anybody care to help? \*\* For you, **Drop** , anything. So, I was thinking of Manny the other night. Not **Manny** the SDMB guy, Manny, family slang for Sloppy Joes (mannie=manwiches=mom’s preferred method of making said sammiches. Although I now prefer a brand called “Not-So-Sloppy-Joes”). Anyway, sloppy joes on hamburger rolls with a side of potato chips are one of my favorite quickie comfort foods. What about YOU? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/110 "2002-04-04T13:05:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly \* > \*\ ***dropzone:** I guess I didn’t realize that it came across that way. If it did, I do apologize to you all and to manhattan. \*\* Oh, but when I commented on it, I got a personalized ‘grow up’? IN short, **Doghouse** Fuck off. Sorry **Fenris** you may go back to your hijack already in progress. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/111 "2002-04-04T13:21:07Z")
Manhattan may have retained his moderator status by the skin of his teeth, for all we know. We are not privy to what was said by the administration of this board to Manhattan and we are not privy to what Manhattan said to the administrators. Manhattan’s usual posts are thoughtful and thought provoking. He has proven himself to be a valued and valuable asset to this board and to our community. So he fucked up–he knows he did, we know he did, and he offered what appologies he felt were needed. The original injured party has accepted those appologies so lets cut the guy some slack. I think that Manhattan could offer abject apologies from now on and that would serve only to prolong the agony–it seems that some of us wouldn’t be satisfied with anything less than a public execution, followed by drawing and quartering, with burial in un-hallowed ground. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/112 "2002-04-04T13:53:29Z")
Fenris, does your mother realize that Manwich is basically overpriced ketchup in a can? Delicious sloppy joes can be made with tomato paste, Coca-Cola, onions, and a touch of pickle relish. (Brilliant idea, buddy! Recipes for comfort foods rival only the MidEast problems for emotional hijack potential.) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/113 "2002-04-04T13:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Delicious sloppy joes can be made with tomato paste, Coca-Cola, onions, and a touch of pickle relish. \*\* [Belushi voice on] No coke, Pepsi[Belushi voice off] ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/114 "2002-04-04T14:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Fenris, does your mother realize that Manwich is basically overpriced ketchup in a can \*\* Yeah, but she still likes it. I still say the “Not-So-Sloppy-Joe” stuff is actually excellent: it even has green peppers and onions in it. If I can’t make my own, it’s the kind I’ll use. And what about canned clam chowder? There’s something weird about the Progresso brand, flavorwise. Chunky brand is potato soup with a few clams, the standard Campbell’s at least _tastes_ clammy…um…clammish…clam-flavored. I can’t think of a really good mainstream canned clam-chowder anymore. And does anyone else remember a Stouffer’s frozen meal (back when “boilin’ bags” were in called “Scallops and Shrimp Mariner”? I Miss that. \*\* > [@](#): > > (Brilliant idea, buddy! Recipes for comfort foods rival only the MidEast problems for emotional hijack potential.)\*\* Thanks. I was thinking of doing a “comfort foods that middle-eastern gun nuts pour into their uncircumcised penises while contemplating abortion and the death-penalty” hijack, but I felt that would have been overkill. Y’think? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/115 "2002-04-04T14:11:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*[Belushi voice on] No coke, Pepsi[Belushi voice off] \*\* Absolutely not! While iI prefer (Diet) Pepsi for drinking, Coke is the only pop that is good for cooking. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/116 "2002-04-04T14:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*Absolutely not! While iI prefer (Diet) Pepsi for drinking, Coke is the only pop that is good for cooking. \*\* let the cola wars begin! (actually IRL, up to recently, I almost never drank **any** cola - except w/pizza. I’ve been really liking those cola w/lemon, though) ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/117 "2002-04-04T14:22:21Z")
"Homemade’ is really the only chowder that’s good for eating. (that was to Fenris.) Just like canned spaghetti, it’s a poor substitute for the real thing. I like Diet coke w/ lemon. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/118 "2002-04-04T20:08:30Z")
Yeah, but you realize that you’re focusing on two big cola manufacturers who spend inordinate amounts of money advertising to fight over market share, and totally ignore the fact that there are generics and minor third-party colas dying on the vine, as it were. The last guy I ever heard saying, “I want a Royal Crown” was this blond kid named Wills. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/119 "2002-04-04T20:10:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > \*\* > Thanks. I was thinking of doing a “comfort foods that middle-eastern gun nuts pour into their uncircumcised penises while contemplating abortion and the death-penalty” hijack, but I felt that would have been overkill. Y’think? > > Fenris \*\* 1-I like Fenris, he’s silly 2-Take 2 slices of challah and make French toast. Then use the 2 slices to make a grilled-cheese sanwich. Open sandwich and add peanut butter(creamy), jelly and honey. ``` Goes well with chocolate milk and cartoons from the 1980's ``` ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203/120 "2002-04-04T21:11:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\* > 2-Take 2 slices of challah and make French toast. Then use the 2 slices to make a grilled-cheese sanwich. Open sandwich and add peanut butter(creamy), jelly and honey. > \*\* Because, if you weren’t diabetic before you ate it… Challah’s too good to mess with like that. Give me just plain challah, maybe with some jam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/on-what-i-said-and-what-i-would-have-said-if-i-didnt-have-issues-to-work-through/101203.md?page=7)