Kunal Nayyar is (I assume) currently US-based while he’s working on BBT. The Rajesh accent seems to be very close to if not identical to his real accent, judging from TV interviews he’s given.
ETA: I suppose he would fall under that last category. Never mind!
I am an Indian immigrant to the US and have a few observations :
1> Indians are adept at distinguishing accents even in the Hindi language. More so than accents, its the choice of words to describe the same situation that will give away where a person grew up in India.
2> 20-30 years ago, most English speaking Indians were taught by ango-indians / catholic schools / missionary schools - where most teachers had or tried to imitate the British accent.
3> I love Apu from Simpsons. His accent is a mix of Indian accents - mostly Gujarati and Punjabi though. Apu’s first name - is Bengali (East Indian) (from Satyajit Ray’s Apu Trilogy). Apu’s last name is South Indian - they do have long last names in the south.
4> Not an linguist but South Indians (especially Malyalam and Tamil speaking folks) are given away by L or M pronounced YELL or YUM by them.
5> Bengalis are given away by their pronunciation of the letter V - especially if its a starting letter. There is no equivalent to write it down for me - but it sounds like a very heavy V. So virus will sound like VVVVirus.
6> Punjabi giveaway is that they try to make english sentences sound like Punjabi. In sense that there is some rhythm to the sentence and the last words in the sentence is heavily emphasized. Something like - How are you DOINGGG ?
7> Contrary to several posts in this thread - people’s accent in India is learnt a lot from teachers and TV news in my generation. In the new generation, kids watch too much hollywood movies and play games and are more comfortable with the American accent.
8> More mainstream Indian actors are showing up in Hollywood movies - for example Anupam Kher (Punjabi Accent) who plays the role of a Therapist to Bradley’s character in Silver Linings Playbook.
Not to mention Irrfan Khan in The Amazing Spider-Man and Amitabh Bachchan in The Great Gatsby, both in small roles, though.
I would like a cite that most English speaking Indians were taught by Anglo-Indians or Catholic or Missionary schools. Almost nobody in my family were taught this way.
Apu’s last name is not South Indian. It’s a name made up by a racist show to mock Indians.
Where are the several posts in this thread that asserted that people’s accents are learned in a different manner? What thread are you reading?
25 years ago, the racists in Hollywood used to routinely cast non-Indians in Indian roles (remember Short Circuit 2?). My guess is the casting of Apu is simply more standard Hollywood racism (after all, the character itself is a racist stereotype, so why not go full-blown racist with the casting).
I know people who say the indicator of a Punjabi accent is that they don’t like to start words with certain consonant clusters, so they say like ‘ischool’ and ‘istudent’ for ‘school’ and ‘student’. (I’ve heard some native Spanish speakers do the same). The Wikipedia says that’s wrong though and that other Indians besides Punjabis do the same thing.
“Nahasapeemapetilon” is a fake name. It sound kind of like a South Indian-style name, but it’s completely made up.
There is no /v/ phoneme at all native to Bengali phonology. Bengalis will replace [v] with [bʰ] or **. This, in Bengali, “Vidyasagar” is pronounced [bid̯d̯aʃagor] instead of [vɪdjəsagər].
Right. Tamil and Malayali names often end in -an, I think (not -on), but the Apu name is clearly made up.
Among people I know, they commonly replace English ‘v’ (e.g. in ‘glove’) with something in between ‘v’ and ‘w’. The Wikipedia article makes reference to that.
Agreed it is made up. Apologies - I did re- read my post and would to like to correct it to say that it sounds South Indian. It can be inspired by Narsimhan or some other last name.
Agreed. Bengalis also cannot say the da sound in ghoda (not sure how to type it).
I don’t think it would have occurred to them that an authentic Indian accent was needed. Except for guest stars, nearly all the voices on the Simpsons are done by a handful of regular cast members. It’s not like a show of that genre demands authenticity. Other characters, like Groundskeeper Willie, don’t have authentic accents.
Hindi analyzes it a “D” sound, but IPA considers it a type of retroflex flapped “R” and its IPA notation is [ɽ].
Bengalis who are also fluent in Hindi might pronounce it as [gʰoɽa], but many Bengalis will replace it will a regular Bengali “R” sound — [gʰora].
Hindi has a single phoneme [ʋ], that Hindi speakers will use to replace both [v] and [w] in English. Bengali speakers would tend use **/[bʰ] for [v] and a diphthong starting with for [w]—for example [u‿et] for “wait.”
There is a marked difference among “Indian” accents. One example of a broad difference is between the educated classes and the less educated ones…(I’m tempted to say, upper and lower classes). As mentioned above, at a crude approximation this carries over to “northern” and “southern.” And in more recent decades, as with many countries there is a cosmopolitan overlay that tends to get thrown into the mix–city v rural–along with a relative smoothing out of a standard accent because Media tends toward a more neutral accent (well; definitely toward what is perceived as a polished version of accent).
A US analog might be along the lines of media folk not using strong “southern” accents.
D’s and T’s, for example, are much less retroflex and more dental as the polish and education of the speaker go up the scale.
Obviously this is a crude approximation, and I’ve always thought it may have its roots in the Dravidian background of the underlying peoples and languages (Kannada v Hindi, e.g.) along with the rough divisions of classes that occurred w/ the historic divisions after Aryan peopling of India.
I’ve never made a study of it; just my own observations as a member of that part of the world.
Um, what?
South Indians are on average more educated and enjpoy a higher HDI than the north (although that conceals a tremendous amount of intra-regional variation) and probably make greater use of English than the north (if only because South Indians tend to have trouble with Hindi).
I don’t deny that class, caste and race are all loosely correlated in India, but they key word there is ‘loosely’, and there are othe rmore important countervailing factors.
I think that’s right (the family members I’m thinking of spoke terrible Hindi at best, but the variety of Tamil they spoke was a somewhat Sanskritized ‘register’, so I don’t know how much their phonology was strictly South Indian vs. North Indian).
My grandmother for example would pronounce ‘glove’ somewhere between ‘glove’ and ‘glow’.
Yes, [əskul] or [səkul] for “school” are heard in many places in India. Bengali has adopted “school” into its vocabulary as [iʃkul] and “box” as [bakʃo] (some dialects use [baʃko]).
This is an interesting video, but a lot of the people featured are trained actors or highly educated politicians or cosmopolitan people who don’t have many of the markers of regional accents. You hear several “convent school” and @nearly British" accents.
Here’s another interesting thing. All (or pretty much all) Indian languages are rhotic, but the higher up you go in sophistication, the more likely an Indian is likely to speak English with a nonrhotic accent.
This is quite true. I am the last “Anglo” in a department of ~100 (all Asian Indian) and there are indeed different accents of “Indian English”.
I’ve heard the equivalent thing with some African French speakers. Francophone Africans generally trill their R’s (like in Spanish, and unlike the French), but you can find some extremely snooty people (the equivalent of the convent school types) who pronounce their R’s in the French fashion (the guttural R).