Right–anyone born by licensed midwife or in a hospital now gets a SSN which eventually gets typed into a birth certificate. My understanding is that Jimmy Carter was the first U.S. president born in a hospital, so I have to wonder if the country has had any presidents before him who never got a birth certificate.
They started tightening the rules long before 9/11, when it became widely known how easy it was to use the birth certificate of a deceased infant to begin generating real identity documents under a different name. The first step was states issuing laws telling county registrars to cross-reference death certificates with original birth certificates, and to make it harder for a person to get an official copy of a birth certificate belonging to another person. Also I think every state was requiring some kind of fingerprint for driver’s licenses and ID cards before 9/11, and checking those against their database.
My second daughter was born in Moscow in 1995. IIRC, I went down to the US Embassy and got her passport, SS number, and Certificate of Birth Abroad all in one day. I did, however, have to produce both my passport and her Russian birth certificate, which wasn’t issued until a month or so after she was born.
My first daughter was born in Minneapolis in 1980. Her mother and I filled out the birth certificate form while still in the hospital, and her SS card arrived in the mail a few weeks later. To the best of my recollection, we didn’t have to apply for it separately.
But they didn’t refuse to get one when your friend was born in 1980- it’s not like someone came to the mother’s hospital room with a form for her to fill out and she refused to complete it. She simply didn’t get one until she needed it , just like the parents of every child born before about 1989 (when the hospital application program went nationwide). Even now it’s not mandatory to apply for the SSN in the hospital - it’s a lot easier than waiting* , but your friend’s mother didn’t have to get either child a SSN as long as she didn’t want to claim them as dependents or get gumbint services for them.
*Applying in the hospital requires a form (which if memory serves requires nothing from the parent but a signature and the parents’ SS numbers if available - all the other info will be on the birth record which SS will verify with the issuing agency) Waiting requires going to the Social Security office in person to complete the the form and original documents verifying the child’s age, identity ( birth certificate doesn’t suffice for this one) and citizenship and verifying the parent’s identity.
Kennedy seems to have been the first president who GOT a birth certificate issued at his birth. (Eisenhower, Nixon, and Reagan all had birth certificates issued after the fact. Eisenhower’s, e.g., was officially filed in Texas in 1952, when Ike was already in his 60s–his younger brother was the “witness.”)
Several minor corrections:
[ol]
[li]The reason that SSNs became required was the rampant Earned Income fraud that was occurring - Before the IRS required all children older than two to have SSNs, a staggering number of peopele were fraudulently collecting EICs based upon the unusual number of young children that were in their families. When this change came into effect, the number of SSNs increased slightly, but the number of children claimed decreased dramatically.[/li][li]I have had three different licenses in the last 15 years due to moves - None of them have required me to submit a fingerprint to do so. This may be the case in a few states, but not in IL,IN or NV.[/li][/ol]
No fingerprint here either, even with our federal-compliant Driver’s Licenses (you have the option of getting a NON-compliant license with even fewer requirements).
nevadaexile:
Not that I’m aware of, and I’ve had four sons circumcised. Even if they did, who would keep records for the girls? Some synagogues may have “cards” for members that includes children’s names and birth dates, but not necessarily connected to any rituals of passage.
Absent extraordinary circumstances, we Jews fill out our birth certificate forms at the hospital like most Americans do. For boys, whom we don’t name until their circumcision ceremonies, we might leave the first name blank, and then go to the local Health Department office to file a revision after getting back the birth certificate without a first name.
There are several different issues being discussed here -
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How do you prove you are who you say you are, especially without documentation?
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How easy is it to assume another person’s identity?
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How easy is it to fabricate a completely fictitious identity?
1 has been beaten to death. Between court declarations and witnesses, paper trails and other accumulated evidence - worst case you need a court to declare you are who you say.
2 - In Bulger’s case, he had somewhat cooperative and low-key alter egos. You can safely pretend to be the same as a homeless person - but if the guy ever gets sober and gets straight, or comes to the attention of the authorities, you might show up. What if the guy had a “deadbeat dad” record? Would using his SSN get your bank account seized? if he dies, do they freeze your account?
If you want to steal an active identity without the cooperation of the other person, and that person has a farly active life that creates its own paper trail, the contradictions will pile up quickly - credit records, passport applications, etc.
The more complex the identity thief’s involvement, the sooner things get noticed; I suspect it’s fairly difficult to impersonate someone and get a passport, unless you are sure that person will never apply for one. Credit cards will show up on his credit report if he happens to ask for it.
3 - a fictitious person, is the most difficult. Building that evidence trail takes time, and backdating evidence in multiple distributed data systems is more difficult. Some places might overlook discrepancies, but the more strict places (like passport office) probably see discrepancies as a red flag.
You may not know precisely when and where you worked during a conversation, but if you claim to have any professional experience, you have your work history and education mapped out to the month on your resume. The less modern, professional your life, the less documentation you have. You can fake an identity as a retired bartender or mechanic a lot more easily than as a computer network expert or an investment broker. If you have ready cash, and a way to launder it without attention, then that’s easier than needing a paying job. And so on…
I think it’s kind of mean to make a person that old totter into the Social Security office to prove their citizenship. :mad:
How does naturalization work? Does anyone know the procedure for naturalizing a child born outside of the US?
davidmich
Well, I can give a little info, since we just adopted our newest daughter from China last October and got her SSN in December.
These days intercountry adoptions are covered by the Hague Convention on International Adoption, so if you want the best info straight from the source, give that a Google. In a nutshell: if you adopt from a Hague signatory country (such as China) and both parents travel to the country to complete the adoption, the child becomes a US citizen by operation of law upon entering the US, and no further procedures are necessary (see the Child Citizenship Act of 2000). We are, however, considering doing an adoption in the US anyway just to generate a birth certificate, which will likely make things easier down the road.
In our case, before coming back to America, we obtained a Chinese passport for our new daughter, went to the US Consulate in Guangzhou, and applied for and obtained an IH-3 visa for her passport. That visa allowed her to enter the US and obtain automatic citizenship. A few weeks thereafter, her Certificate of Citizenship arrived in the mail. We were then finally able to go to the Social Security Office with the CoC and the passport and get her SSN. In order to apply for a social security number, you need two things: proof of identity, and proof of citizenship. We could plausibly have applied before the CoC arrived, using the IH-3 as proof of citizenship, but not every office accepts that, so we just waited.
No, but you do need proof of birth to obtain an SSN, so if you get one, it means you’ve already addressed the underlying question.
Cut them open and count the rings.
Anybody who cares about getting documentation nowadays (i.e. under, say, 85 years old) who immigrated from outside the USA, there is likely documentation in a government office. Children today, especially, there are likely all sorts of documentation of them and their parents.
I assume if the guardian(s) applying for naturalization on behalf of a child don’t match those on the immigration paperwork, then further digging might happen. Plus, if you do get the child naturalized and it’s a case of stolen identity (import the baby and try to turn him into an anchor baby) then if the real person comes forwad later, that too will set off alarms.
I saw my father and stepmother’s US naturalization papers; basically they had obtained US residency (green card?) and then once they met the residency requirements, applied for naturalization. The naturalization papers had a passport photo and address details. Presumably they match these against the green card applications, which were matched against passports when they applied for a visa, that visa application included a massive background documentation check, etc. I assume as part of naturalization there was also a check against criminal databases, IRS, employment and other references, etc.?
Again, it would be tricky to create a character from scratch, and difficult and risky to assume a live identity.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Cut them open and count the rings.
[/QUOTE]
That is not correct. Legal Immigrants, Foreign Students, Temporary workers, etc. can all get SSN. The SS Card has a notice saying that it is not valid for employment - and employment subject to visa provisions or something to that effect.
This is/was certainly not true for India.
I would surmise that the Abrahamic religions - Islam/Christianity/Jews have a tradition of Aqiqah/Baptism/Bar-Mitzvah where a child is formally registered / recorded had an easy way to convert to the State keeping death and birth records.
Although this has changed in India for the better, 30 or 40 years ago there would be few birth records (it was better in the big cities). Moreover many folks do not formally name their baby at birth, so the birth certificate will be for Sonny Boy - born to XYZ on DD/MM/YY.
Legal immigrants, foreign students and temporary workers must all submit proof of birth to obtain Social Security numbers. It’s irrelevant whether that proof of birth is valid for employment purposes.
.
You might get caught.
Or you might not.
Bulger changed a letter in the name of identity he was using. If they authorities looked, they would more likely think that this was a typo rather than someone intentionally trying to disguise their identity,especially if everything else matched.I won’t even go into extremely lengthy or difficult to spell names.
And they would need to get a court order to seize any accounts. It’s not as if you wouldn’t get warning that this was going to occur before it did. And if they did…simply paying the amount owed (they found Bulger with more than $800k in his hideout) would resolve most problems.
You are looking too deeply into this.
The purpose of gaining ID would be to have proof of who you are. The whole credit history thing is unimportant as you either have some alternate form of savings (in Bulger’s case, a large stash of cash) or you are working off the books, which would pay you in cash.
Many places will rent to you by the month without checking credit. Most are dumps. But there are also many older people who supplement their incomes by renting out properties or even rooms in their own homes to people for weekly or monthly cash. They don’t do credit checks, as if you don’t pay, you don’t stay. The same is true for recent immigrants to the US.
As far as a passport: Even though it necessary to have one to travel, most Americans still don’t have one and never will. Most never leave the US. Even military members don’t need passports for most of their assignments as their military IDs, their travel orders and forces agreements act as their passports.
If you apply for a passport, then chances are you won’t have to worry about another one having been issued in the same name. Again,most people don’t have one and most people never leave the US in their lifetimes.
Not really.
Most people will believe that you are who you say that you are. Give them a business card and/or a realistic looking (or even a real) ID using another identity, and they’ll take what you say at face value. Police officers, federal agents, human resources managers and other people who are used to being lied to might check you out. But most people are too wrapped up in their own lives to worry about other people who may only marginally intersect with those lives.
And if you are hiding from someone , you aren’t going to go for jobs which would require extensive background checks anyway. You are going to take a small-time job and simply work that. Or, if you are old enough, you can pretend that you are retired and living off of Social Security or a pension. You can even state that you are disabled and that you are living off of SSDI or a legal settlement at almost any age.
Most of the time no one will check as if they don’t catch you in too many obvious lies , they’ll have no reason to be suspicious.
Finally, you don’t have to “launder” cash unless you try to deposit it. As long as you keep your purchases at reasonable levels and occasionally pretend to be “broke” people will assume that you are in the same financial situation as they are, or worse.Also, most businesses have no problems with accepting cash and there are pre-paid debit cards in case you “need” a credit card to make a purchase.
You can even get a person to open a bank account for you in their name and make cash deposits to that account and withdrawals using an ATM card that they obtain for your use. Hell…they can get a debit card for you and you can use it for online purchases.
You seem to believe that a person who is on the run or or committing ID fraud is going to act as a person who is legal would. They won’t, as they don’t have to in the majority of instances. They know that they aren’t going to be asked for ID in the majority of situations and that they simply can show an ID in the few instances where they might be and it won’t be scrutinized very closely.
Cite please ? Per this site only proof of age is required.
Its relevant that the immigrant needs to submit a proof of birth when naturalized (that is when the clause I mentioned is taken off the SSN card)