# Once again, a pitting of our local pseudo-scientific racialists
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [January 5, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184 "2013-01-05T19:21:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/1 "2013-01-05T19:21:55Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=674550) and [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=677058), **Chief Pedant** and **brazil84** have been… profligate, let’s say, in promoting their hypothesis that the best explanation for disparate outcomes (educational, economic, and crime) between different ethnicities/races is genetic. That is, that black people are inherently dumber. They repeat the same sad, tired old arguments we’ve seen so many times, all without a hint of actual genetic evidence (that is, the genes responsible and their relative abundance in different populations). And CP, hilariously, counters nearly every argument with the [same silly comparisons to Creationism](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15865080&postcount=148), which is highly ironic from a supporter of a hypothesis with no supporting evidence. I’d like to call attention to a few gems- [an apparent mind-reading of how all scientists in the field think](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15852059&postcount=134), [an implication that major historical events have no consequences](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15865327&postcount=208), [an outright admission that there is no supporting genetic evidence for his position](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15864864&postcount=200), [a repeated dismissal and disregard for any and all contrary evidence](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15864814&postcount=198), and my favorite, [an inference that importation of modern weaponry implies genetic inferiority](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15865227&postcount=150).
So mock them, point and laugh, and pity their backwards, 19th century, unscientific minds, all in this thread. They fail miserably, again and again, and come back for more- and always with the same tired, old, refuted studies and claims.
Undoubtedly some will call for ignoring them- and that’s fine. I choose not to, chiefly because I think it’s in the best interests of “fighting ignorance” to point out the weakness and failures of these tired arguments. I don’t expect to change their minds- but I think it’s important that pseudoscientific nonsense like this gets appropriately challenged and mocked.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/2 "2013-01-05T19:37:31Z")
Incidentally many “modern” racists are linking population and the environment to bolster anti-immigrant agendas.
The chutzpa comes from them for assuming that people do not have the internet to check with reliable sources that report where most of their stupid and sorry rhetoric is coming from.
---
### Author:  [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/3 "2013-01-05T20:02:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> That is, that black people are inherently dumber.
Do you truly believe otherwise? That black people are just as smart as whites and Asians genetically, and they just haven’t had the right environment to apply their natural intelligence? Nobody believes that shit deep down, but nobody is willing to say it either, in this apparent effort to prove how liberal and modern and enlightened they are.
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/4 "2013-01-05T20:06:06Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Do you truly believe otherwise? That black people are just as smart as whites and Asians genetically, and they just haven’t had the right environment to apply their natural intelligence? Nobody believes that shit deep down, but nobody is willing to say it either, in this apparent effort to prove how liberal and modern and enlightened they are.
Another one! They’re just coming out of the woodwork here. Apparently belief in racial superiority has a strong correlation with belief in mind-reading. I wonder if there’s a genetic link?
---
### Author:  [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/5 "2013-01-05T20:07:53Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> Another one! They’re just coming out of the woodwork here. Apparently belief in racial superiority has a strong correlation with belief in mind-reading. I wonder if there’s a genetic link?
Nice dodging the question. So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers and… oh, right, it’s the _ **SYSTEM** _ that’s keeping them down. :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/6 "2013-01-05T20:08:07Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Nobody believes that shit deep down, but nobody is willing to say it either, in this apparent effort to prove how liberal and modern and enlightened they are.
One of the classic claims of many fanatics; that everyone really knows that they are in the right but just refuses to admit it.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/7 "2013-01-05T20:10:03Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers . . .
[Around.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_inventors_and_scientists)
---
### Author:  [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/8 "2013-01-05T20:10:13Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Nice dodging the question. So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers and… oh, right, it’s the _ **SYSTEM** _ that’s keeping them down. :rolleyes:
…They’re out there working as physicists and mathemeticians and engineers?
Or maybe Carl Sagan was [just a big ol’ shill for affirmative action](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson)…
---
### Author:  [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/9 "2013-01-05T20:11:51Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Nice dodging the question. So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers and…
One of them works about three doors down from my office. Another is around the corner, in the biostatistics area. Head down the hall from there, and you’ll find two African Americans, but they’re not physicists or mathematicians or engineers, they’re medical doctors.
So, you know, you’re a moron.
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/10 "2013-01-05T20:12:31Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Nice dodging the question. So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers and… oh, right, it’s the _ **SYSTEM** _ that’s keeping them down. :rolleyes:
There are lots and lots of [black physicists](http://www.nsbp.org/), including one of the most famous in the world (Neil deGrasse Tyson), [black mathematicians](http://www.math.buffalo.edu/mad/madgreatest.html), and [black engineers](http://www.nsbe.org/). You are being very foolish.
---
### Author:  [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/11 "2013-01-05T20:23:32Z")
I’m always happy to learn there’s some racist piece of shit on this board I wasn’t previously aware of so I know not to engage them and rather just PALATR. Hi, **Rigamarole**!
Though, really, [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15811150&postcount=21) post should have clued me in on how deep your head is buried up your ass. Cheers!
---
### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/12 "2013-01-05T20:29:47Z")
Isn’t **CP** a Native-American? If so, that’s just another one of those ironic user names I guess.
---
### Author:  [@Capt\_Kirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_Kirk)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/13 "2013-01-05T20:32:29Z")
There is also the POTUS, people may disagree with him but you don’t graduate from Havard Law without being really smart.
**Capt**
---
### Author:  [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/14 "2013-01-05T20:58:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> There are lots and lots of [black physicists](http://www.nsbp.org/), including one of the most famous in the world (Neil deGrasse Tyson), …
he killed Pluto in a drive by, he’s just a gangsta.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/15 "2013-01-05T20:58:31Z")
Loooking at the links, I can see that brazil84 also plays loose with historical facts just as with the scientific ones.
He claims that Haiti has been free of whites for hundreds of years, completely ignoring the interventions, invasions and occupations by the USA in the early and late 20th century.
The early one was still less than 100 years old.
> **[Occupation of Haiti (1915-34)](https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/haiti19.htm)**
> [@](#):
>
> The occupation of Haiti continued after World War I, despite the embarrassment that it caused Woodrow Wilson at the Paris peace conference in 1919 and the scrutiny of a congressional inquiry in 1922. By 1930 President Herbert Hoover had become concerned about the effects of the occupation, particularly after a December 1929 incident in Les Cayes in which marines killed at least ten Haitian peasants during a march to protest local economic conditions. Hoover appointed two commissions to study the situation. A former governor general of the Philippines, W. Cameron Forbes, headed the more prominent of the two. The Forbes Commission praised the material improvements that the United States administration had wrought, but it criticized the exclusion of Haitians from positions of real authority in the government and the constabulary, which had come to be known as the Garde d’Haiti. In more general terms, the commission further asserted that “the social forces that created [instability] still remain–poverty, ignorance, and the lack of a tradition or desire for orderly free government.”
>
> The Hoover administration did not implement fully the recommendations of the Forbes Commission, but United States withdrawal was well under way by 1932, when Hoover lost the presidency to Roosevelt, the presumed author of the most recent Haitian constitution. On a visit to Cap Haitien in July 1934, Roosevelt reaffirmed an August 1933 disengagement agreement. The last contingent of marines departed in mid-August, after a formal transfer of authority to the Garde. As in other countries occupied by the United States in the early twentieth century, the local military was often the only cohesive and effective institution left in the wake of withdrawal.
And as I can tell you about what happened in Central America it was a very, very bad idea to leave just the military as the only effective institution after an occupation. It usually destroys all the good it was achieved elsewhere.
---
### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/16 "2013-01-05T21:16:01Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#):
>
> There is also the POTUS, people may disagree with him but you don’t graduate from Havard Law without being really smart.
>
> **Capt**
Who, ironically enough, was labelled an intellectual elitist when he asked a bunch of really smart people to be on his cabinet.
---
### Author:  [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/17 "2013-01-05T21:16:34Z")
The chief scientist at my old company was black and brilliant (and is currently a professor at Johns Hopkins). The best professor I had in the applied mathematics department when I went to grad school was black. There are a bunch of black scientists and engineers at my current place of employment.
You, Rigamarole, are a moron. It has nothing to do with the system keeping them down, it has to do with history and socioeconomic forces.
---
### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/18 "2013-01-05T22:26:08Z")
I am going to get nailed for this one too but I think it is a logical point that needs to be made. Let’s just assume that everyone on the planet has exactly the same intellectual potential due to some mysterious force. However, we know that not everyone is meeting that potential for whatever reason. Let’s assume it is strictly environmental and socioeconomic for the sake of argument.
In the U.S. today, most black people went to primary and secondary schools that are either under-performing as a whole (inner city schools, poor rural schools, historically black colleges) or they went to a good school and generally under-performed there by any standard that can be measured by any test ever invented by anyone. Occasionally, you will get a really smart black American like some people on this board or someone like President Obama (who came from very atypical background) but that isn’t common for the demographic general.
Given that, is still it incorrect to say that, in general, black people in the U.S. today are intellectually inferior to other groups for whatever reason? What further can be done about it? Please explain your answer without hate because I have none. It is an honest question that the left/progressives/liberals seem to dance around.
---
### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/19 "2013-01-05T22:30:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#):
>
> Given that, is still it incorrect to say that, in general, black people in the U.S. today are intellectually inferior to other groups for whatever reason? What further can be done about it? Please explain your answer without hate because I have none.
The point of this pitting is not because the pittees feel black people are intellectually inferior for whatever reason; it’s because they feel black people are intellectually inferior because they’re black people. So, your pile o’ assumptions isn’t necessarily valid for the discussion at hand. Perhaps you could open a thread in Great Debates about it.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/20 "2013-01-05T22:56:11Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#):
>
> Nice dodging the question. So, where are all the black physicists and mathematicians and engineers and… oh, right, it’s the _ **SYSTEM** _ that’s keeping them down. :rolleyes:
So what university do you work at?
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184.md?page=2)