# Once again, a pitting of our local pseudo-scientific racialists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184 "2013-01-05T19:21:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/381 "2013-01-13T22:37:03Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Of course I did not read the exchange since **iiandyiiii** is a liar and is on my ignore list. You are a very, very silly person. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/382 "2013-01-13T22:37:49Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The consistency with which those of West African descent dominate the sprinting record books—regardless of where they were raised—is exceedingly strong evidence that genes are playing a role. Agreed. With a lot of other sports, I am willing to accept that racial disparities are in large part the result of non-genetic factors. But sprinting? No way. The disparity is just too striking and too international. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/383 "2013-01-13T23:01:19Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What we do have is overwhelming indirect evidence that the observed racial gap in cognitive ability is due in large part to genetic differences. Hate to interrupt your love affair with that term, but evidence does not become overwhelming simply by repeating the phrase “overwhelming evidence” like some kind of incantation. The one thing we do have overwhelming evidence for is your overwhelming fear and loathing toward black people, upon which foundation your entire pseudoscientific outhouse of cards is shakily built. What gave birth to that is less clear. Maybe you invited Becky Sue to the prom but she went with Deondre instead. Maybe your suburban breakdance troupe got mightily served by the inner city kids and it still stings in your perianal region. Maybe the only thing that gets your dinkie perpendicular is monster black cock Mandingo cuckold porn, and this pathetic crusade is the only way you know how to sublimate your shame. In the end it doesn’t really matter exactly what your personal problems are; it’s just good that you have a place to work them out among your friends and peers. Baby steps, **Zilly**. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/384 "2013-01-13T23:01:45Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > That’s wrong too, but even if it were true, it wouldn’t change the fact that what I brought up was not “out of the blue” as you have falsely claimed. > > Of course I did not read the exchange since **iiandyiiii** is a liar and is on my ignore list. In any event, if I missed something in the person’s argument, he is free to bring it up. It doesn’t change the fact that my response to you was not “out of the blue” as you have falsely claimed. > > Ummm, here’s the exchange: > > (my bolding) > > At that point, we were not discussing the identification of genes or alleles-- simply whether there was a plausible explanation why IQ-boosting alleles might end up being more prevalent in one race (or continent) as opposed to another. **Belowjob2.0** clearly took the position that demonstration of such an explanation was necessary. > > And of course I think that sub-point, charitably viewed, is correct. > > So please stop lying about what was said. It’s all there in black and white. You missed this exchange: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree with all of Belowjob2.0’s post but I wanted to quibble with this part: > > [Quote= Belowjob2.0] > > What you have to do is show some plausible reason why high IQ genes offered a reproductive advantage in Mediterranean Europe but not anywhere in Africa. This question would really come after the genes are found, if they were found in different relative abundances in different populations. If such a “plausible reason” was found now (before there’s any actual evidence for the genetic explanation), it would provide nothing as far as evidence goes. [/quote] > [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > I concur. > > I didn’t mean to give the impression that such genes have been found. They haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/385 "2013-01-13T23:05:16Z")
Well, **John Mace** , you can see that the Brazil nut is, well, nuts. It does not matter if his selective ignore “feature” is tripping him, he is correct because he put any contradiction on ignore. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/386 "2013-01-13T23:13:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You don’t know much about football if you think speed is all that’s needed to “dominate” at CB or WR. There’s a reason those are called “skill” positions. CB especially is a very, very tough position to learn. No one learns it quick. Almost everyone who makes it to the NFL or NBA has been playing the sport since they were a small child. Same goes for professional tennis or hockey, or any other sport. Look at what sports little kids are playing, and which kids are spending the most time on it, and you’ll see who is going to dominate that sport in 15 years or so. And this has always been true and will always be true. That matters far, far more than the genetics of different populations (if those genetics even matter at all). Actually, I played CB throughout high school, and some touch leagues in and after college, so I know a little something about it. Are you aware that they also call WR, CB, and Safety the speed positions? I wonder why. And no, no one is arguing that all you need for those positions is speed, so you can put that straw man back in your attic. I did notice how you ignored the example about sprinting, and how you ignored the hypothetical posed to you. Given your desire to stay epoxied to your position no matter what, those were wise decisions indeed. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/387 "2013-01-13T23:17:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You missed this exchange: It’s not my responsibility to go hunting for additional posts made by someone in order to tease out some additional meaning from his posts. **Belowjob2.0** responded to a post I made which was written in response to **Fothingray-Phipps**. I read his response and interpreted it reasonably. If he made some different argument somewhere else, he is free to raise it with me directly. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/388 "2013-01-13T23:19:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Given your desire to stay epoxied to your position no matter what, those were wise decisions indeed. Coming from a guy supporting an evidence-free hypothesis, this is comical. Re-stating the question doesn’t count as evidence. A hypothesis is the beginning of scientific inquiry, not the end. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/389 "2013-01-13T23:22:38Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > It’s not my responsibility to go hunting for additional posts made by someone in order to tease out some additional meaning from his posts. It most certainly is if you’re going to accuse me of not following the discussion and lying about what others posted. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/390 "2013-01-13T23:24:02Z")
So, to be clear, is it your position that genetics _plays no role_ when it comes to the world’s fastest humans, and that there does _not_ appear to be an extremely high correlation between the world’s fattest sprinters and West African descent, regardless of where they live and have been raised? And you may want to look up the word “evidence”. It doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/391 "2013-01-13T23:29:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, to be clear, is it your position that genetics _plays no role_ when it comes to the world’s fastest humans, and that there does _not_ appear to be an extremely high correlation between the world’s fattest sprinters and West African descent, regardless of where they live and have been raised? Of course genetics is involved (with individuals), but it’s my position that there’s no evidence that different genetics _between populations/ethnicities/races_ is the best explanation for any apparent “domination” (at the very highest levels) of certain sports by any particular ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/392 "2013-01-13T23:31:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Of course genetics is involved (with individuals), but it’s my position that there’s no evidence that different genetics _between populations/ethnicities/races_ is the best explanation for any apparent “domination” (at the very highest levels) of certain sports by any particular ethnicity. Well, of course there is evidence. A better point is that there is not conclusive evidence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/393 "2013-01-13T23:36:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > there does _not_ appear to be an extremely high correlation between the world’s fattest sprinters and West African descent Fat sprinting sounds like a great new sport. I wonder if there would be any genetic component. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/394 "2013-01-13T23:39:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It most certainly is if you’re going to accuse me of not following the discussion and lying about what others posted. No it is not, since you are accusing me of making up an argument and attributing it to **Belowjob2.0**. I clearly made nothing up. Nor did I bring up an argument “from out of the blue” as you have claimed. Do you have any more lies you want to tell? Or is that pretty much it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/395 "2013-01-13T23:40:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, of course there is evidence. A better point is that there is not conclusive evidence. I don’t think there’s evidence for the _genetic explanation for different sports outcomes between ethnicities_. Sure, there’s evidence that the top sprinters are more likely to be black, but that’s not evidence for anything about genetics. Here’s how the sequence goes in science (for this question or the intelligence one, or any other)- a difference in test-scores, or sprinting times, is noted between populations/ethnicities. Hypotheses are made about what the best explanation is for these differences. Some have hypothesized a cultural explanation, and others have hypothesized a genetic explanation. But for the genetic hypothesis, it’s gone no further, and yet proponents claim that the different times alone (or the different test-scores, alone) counts as evidence for the genetic explanation. No, that’s just re-stating the question that an answer is sought for. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/396 "2013-01-13T23:41:29Z")
[So, if the fastest 25 people in the world all hare West African, regardless of where they were raised,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres) how do you account for that? Chance? How about if it was the fastest 50? or 100? At what point do you think it likely that genetics are at least partially responsible? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/397 "2013-01-13T23:42:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, of course there is evidence. A better point is that there is not conclusive evidence. Exactly. It appears that **iiandyiiii** thinks “evidence” means “proof”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/398 "2013-01-13T23:46:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [So, if the fastest 25 people in the world all hare West African, regardless of where they were raised,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres) how do you account for that? Chance? We’ve done this before. How many of those guys have european (or native American) ancestry? Certainly most, probably all. You’ve raised a question, and made a hypothesis- and that’s it. You’ve gone no further. And really- if you think West African genes are the best for sprinting, wouldn’t you think that at least more than one or two of the best sprinters might come from the part of the planet with the most and densest collection of West African genes, like, I don’t know, _West Africa_? How do I account for it? If I wanted to, I’d actually _do science_. That starts with making a hypothesis, but there’s quite a bit more involved. Science is hard. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/399 "2013-01-13T23:47:35Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Exactly. It appears that **iiandyiiii** thinks “evidence” means “proof”. Wrong- there’s actually _no evidence for the genetic explanation._ ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/400 "2013-01-13T23:48:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > [So, if the fastest 25 people in the world all hare West African, regardless of where they were raised,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_metres) how do you account for that? Chance? Maybe it’s stereotype threat. If Chinese sprinters would only start believing that they can run faster, they would crack the top 25 no problem. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184.md?page=21)