# Once again, a pitting of our local pseudo-scientific racialists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 5, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184 "2013-01-05T19:21:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/441 "2013-01-16T22:59:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Wrong, the evidence for AGW is overwhelming and experts do come even with reports on the probabilities You’re right the degree of statistical certainty are orders of magnitude apart. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And the statistics say nothing about the genetics. The statistics show the test-score gap (or the “sprinting gap”)- but the statistics say nothing about _why that gap exists_. Answering that question requires a lot more investigation. All the statistics show is a real correlation, but nothing about causation. Yeah, I think thats where the uncertainty creeps in, but the dismissive attitude of people on this board towards the notion that this apparent genetic IQ is entirely illusory until a gentic marker can be identified undermines credibility of their position. > [@](#): > > And comparing it to global warming shows a concept error. There’s data that shows temperatures going up, there’s data that shows greenhouse gases like CO2 going up, and there’s data that shows that human activity causes an increase in greenhouse gases. It’s more than just correlation. So there is correlation between greenhouse gasses and higher temperatures and there is evidence that we cause greenhouse gasses and so we must be causing global warming? You don’t see any holes in that logic that a peristent skeptic could exploit? > [@](#): > > This is not a fact, and there is zero evidence that the statistical “advantage” is explained by genetics. As someone more learned than me explained to me recently, _a statistical difference by itself provides zero evidence for causation_. And all there is is a statistical correlation, large enough that random chance can be eliminated. So yes, top sprinters are more likely to be black then random chance would suggest. But on the question of _why_ top sprinters are more likely to be black (or top basketball players, football WRs, etc), there is zero evidence for the genetic explanation. It’s a plausible hypothesis, but that’s all it is right now. Science is hard. And yet so many on this board dismiss this “plausible hypothesis” out of the gate and call anyone who believe this hypothesis a “racist” > [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > What is this, the Ice-9 theory of genetic mutations? Is it your claim that if a gene is dominant then all (no exceptions!) offspring will have that trait? Because if not, the test I just described will show a testable result (and if you argue the opposite, then I have bad news for you; the low-IQ gene will eventually be present in all individuals everywhere). Good point. Do you have a cite to that study that shows the perfectly flat gradient you talk about? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/442 "2013-01-16T23:04:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah, I think thats where the uncertainty creeps in, but the dismissive attitude of people on this board towards the notion that this apparent genetic IQ is entirely illusory until a gentic marker can be identified undermines credibility of their position. You’ll notice that the targets of this thread are _certain_ that blacks (on average) are genetically mentally inferior. > [@](#): > > So there is correlation between greenhouse gasses and higher temperatures and there is evidence that we cause greenhouse gasses and so we must be causing global warming? You don’t see any holes in that logic that a peristent skeptic could exploit? If that was all there was to it, sure- but there’s a lot more to it. I’m not going to get into it in this thread, but there’s tons of evidence for human action being at least partially responsible for changing global climate, and there’s zero evidence for the genetic explanation for the test-score gap. > [@](#): > > And yet so many on this board dismiss this “plausible hypothesis” out of the gate and call anyone who believe this hypothesis a “racist” As I said, the targets of this thread are certain of this hypothesis, and refuse to acknowledge that they actually have no evidence for it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/443 "2013-01-17T02:03:00Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So there is correlation between greenhouse gasses and higher temperatures and there is evidence that we cause greenhouse gasses and so we must be causing global warming? You don’t see any holes in that logic that a peristent skeptic could exploit? The big problem is that they are mostly fake skeptics. Most of the basic evidence was found and tested back in the 50’s, and verified several times with new technology, the holes that many fake skeptics are trying to push were debated and explored a long time ago and the consensus changed when the evidence piled up that the increase of man made CO2 is not good. [http://www.aip.org/history/climate/timeline.htm](http://www.aip.org/history/climate/timeline.htm) In many cases I can see the similarities with the issue at hand, we can see that many that believed that treating the atmosphere as a sewer were wrong, there are consequences. Unfortunately not even the funding of contrarian researchers is effective to find good evidence to affirm that we should continue to pollute with no worries, similarly genetics and biology came decades ago with the then surprising evidence that DNA showed that the differences among humans were not as impressive as many that wanted to still keep groups of people down were. It was with that evidence that most biologists and geneticists do not give much importance to possible genetic differences in intelligence, and I have seen estimates from serious scientists on how much a percentage it could be from a genetic component, suffice to say, the conclusion is that the percentage is in the \*\*unlikely \*\*area as a climate change scientist would tell you. And so, the ones that lost the support of science for their prejudices are looking far and low for evidence to get the scientists that count to change their minds and to get back to support them in large numbers like in “the good old days”. Not likely to happen on both fields. **And the brasil nut is an idiot asshole on both**. (As if there could not be yet another reason why you should \*\*not \*\*bother to continue to indirectly support his sorry ass in this thread) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/444 "2013-01-17T05:27:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’ll notice that the targets of this thread are _certain_ that blacks (on average) are genetically mentally inferior. There are at least a few variable that you cannot control for in the statistical analysis. Its hard for ME to believe that those statistical variables account for such a large gap and noone has presented more plausible explanations for the IQ gap than an innate difference in IQ. My problem with these sort of conclusions is that in DC it really only serves a couple of purposes. One is to explain away the incredibly high incarceration rate among blacks, the other is to undermine affirmative action (after all if there is a genetic IQ gap, then maybe its not racism that is causing the socioeconomic gap. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > …similarly genetics and biology came decades ago with the then surprising evidence that DNA showed that the differences among humans were not as impressive as many that wanted to still keep groups of people down were. > > It was with that evidence that most biologists and geneticists do not give much importance to possible genetic differences in intelligence, and I have seen estimates from serious scientists on how much a percentage it could be from a genetic component, suffice to say, the conclusion is that the percentage is in the \*\*unlikely \*\*area as a climate change scientist would tell you. > > And so, the ones that lost the support of science for their prejudices are looking far and low for evidence to get the scientists that count to change their minds and to get back to support them in large numbers like in “the good old days”. > > Not likely to happen on both fields. **And the brasil nut is an idiot asshole on both**. (As if there could not be yet another reason why you should \*\*not \*\*bother to continue to indirectly support his sorry ass in this thread) Let me start by saying, I don’t think very much about Brazilnut. Just to be clear, you are not saying that IQ is not heritable, you are merely saying that there is not a measurable difference in the heritable portion of IQ between races. Right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/445 "2013-01-17T05:39:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think the genetic gap is anywhere near as large as the racists and Republicans would like you to believe but there is about as much evidence for a genetic cause of some of the IQ gap as there is for anthropomorphic global warming. There is some evidence, however, for an IQ gap, genetic or not, between those who confuse “anthropomorphic” with “anthropogenic” and those who do not. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/446 "2013-01-17T05:59:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Let me start by saying, I don’t think very much about Brazilnut. Good, I was starting to think you were afraid of him banning you. Of course, you should not forget that this is a roast of him, so you are not helping much. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Just to be clear, you are not saying that IQ is not heritable, you are merely saying that there is not a measurable difference in the heritable portion of IQ between races. Right? I reviewed the notes I had, and unfortunately (for some) it is worse, the take home is that the between the “About as likely as not” (33 to 66% provability) and “Unlikely” (\< 33% probability) number I mentioned is regarding heritability, the difference between races? Guys like Cabali Sforza report that there is almost no difference. We are talking then “extremely unlikely” territory (\<5% to 0%) when using the probability level meanings used by the IPCC ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/447 "2013-01-17T09:57:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > There are at least a few variable that you cannot control for in the statistical analysis. Its hard for ME to believe that those statistical variables account for such a large gap and noone has presented more plausible explanations for the IQ gap than an innate difference in IQ. Researcher Frank Sweet has suggested that the best explanation for the test-score gap is a combination of three things- lesser parenting skills, lower teacher expectations, and “oppositional culture” peer pressure. There is no actual evidence for the genetic explanation, and it doesn’t even fit all the facts- like no gap between black and white 1st generation immigrant children, or no gap between home-schooled children (according to Sweet). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/448 "2013-01-27T19:44:45Z")
Just a bump to report that the weasel basil84 was indeed lying on those who he has “banned” or claims to ignore In the other GD thread he indeed does reply to \*\*Gagundathar \*_and previously he did replied to me by using a reply that Chief Pedant made to me_, as I posted already evidence to support my points brasil84 just demonstrates to all what an inconsistent idiot he is. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15943101#post15943101](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15943101#post15943101) I actually did report that early, the debating by proxy after claiming before that he was ignoring me and others, but I advised later to management that he had not done so, turns out that the coffee had not kicked in and I was wrong, he actually did reply to me using the Chief as a proxy. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/449 "2013-01-28T18:59:04Z")
And seeing how pathetic even the Chief got in GD I think we are done. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/450 "2013-01-29T04:51:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Just a bump to report that the weasel basil84 was indeed lying on those who he has “banned” or claims to ignore In the other GD thread he indeed does reply to \*\*Gagundathar \*_and previously he did replied to me by using a reply that Chief Pedant made to me_, as I posted already evidence to support my points brasil84 just demonstrates to all what an inconsistent idiot he is. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15943101#post15943101](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15943101#post15943101) > > I actually did report that early, the debating by proxy after claiming before that he was ignoring me and others, but I advised later to management that he had not done so, turns out that the coffee had not kicked in and I was wrong, he actually did reply to me using the Chief as a proxy. Are you losing it mentally? For some reason I don’t remember your posts being as disjointed, full of misspellings, run-ons, and garbled syntax as they seem to be recently. But I may be losing it myself 😉 , and perhaps I have you confused with a more coherent poster. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/451 "2013-01-29T05:09:40Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Are you losing it mentally? > For some reason I don’t remember your posts being as disjointed, full of misspellings, run-ons, and garbled syntax as they seem to be recently. But I may be losing it myself 😉 , and perhaps I have you confused with a more coherent poster. I prefer to be someone that is confused grammatically than someone that continues to feed the wrong wolf. I have acknowledged many times before that my grammar is a crime against nature, but my excuse is that it is my second language and I get into more trouble when I get a cold or a fever, what is your excuse of willfully misrepresenting scientific information to others? And to rely on debating tactics that only a creationist or a climate change denier would be proud of? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/452 "2013-01-29T05:29:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I have acknowledged many times before that my grammar is a crime against nature, but my excuse is that it is my second language . . . Are you sure it isn’t your genetically-inferior Latino heritage? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/453 "2013-01-29T05:44:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are you sure it isn’t your genetically-inferior Latino heritage? 😉 Considering that the latest researchers cited by him had more trouble finding a gap with Latinos, I don’t think so. 🙂 And when one takes into account how they come later with even more evidence to make [any genetic influenced differences among races moot](http://economics.harvard.edu/faculty/fryer/files/fryer_levittbabiesrevision.pdf), I only need to point that out to show all and for the 100th time how cracked and useless this Pedantic fellow has become. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/454 "2013-01-29T07:49:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are you sure it isn’t your genetically-inferior Latino heritage? 😉 Hey! I m a Spaniard, and I am sure we helped _raise_ the world’s IQ due to our erm… propensity to to mingle not just isolate/exterminate. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/455 "2013-01-29T07:57:39Z")
PS- Geneticaly inferior my ass. Spain dominates about every international sport there is. \*Check the latest results of the handwold championships. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/456 "2013-01-29T08:06:32Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Hey! I m a Spaniard, and I am sure we helped _raise_ the world’s IQ due to our erm… propensity to to mingle not just isolate/exterminate. 😛 I recall the phrase “the Spanish toothache.” (It’s not actually in the teeth, think lower.) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/457 "2013-01-29T08:06:57Z")
PS-or comes close --almost always top 5/10. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/458 "2013-01-29T08:09:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I recall the phrase “the Spanish toothache.” (It’s not actually in the teeth, think lower.) Yeah, no doubt we’ve always been horny bastids. So? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/459 "2013-01-29T08:36:23Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Yeah, no doubt we’ve always been horny bastids. So? 😉 So, it’s a sign of a racially inferior [reproductive strategy](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8851328)! Ye lustful savage! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184/460 "2013-01-29T14:00:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I prefer to be someone that is confused grammatically than someone that continues to feed the wrong wolf. > > I have acknowledged many times before that my grammar is a crime against nature, but my excuse is that it is my second language and I get into more trouble when I get a cold or a fever, what is your excuse of willfully misrepresenting scientific information to others? And to rely on debating tactics that only a creationist or a climate change denier would be proud of? I apologize. I had you confused with a different poster. I wish to make it clear that I am interested in debating points. I don’t care if your grammar is lousy, and I do not take such errors as evidence that the underlying point is incorrect. I was having trouble parsing out some of your posts in GD, which is the only place I’m interested in debating. I usually leave the Pit to those who like to name-call, but who are apparently unable to hold a debate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-a-pitting-of-our-local-pseudo-scientific-racialists/646184.md?page=24)