# Once again I'll be voting Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 11, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008 "2004-09-11T04:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/41 "2004-09-11T19:13:17Z")
> [@qts](#): > > I can’t speak for Bill, but in my case the answer is “Absolutely.” Character is one of the prime considerations for choosing a leader. So, you’d rather have a strong leader to effectively change policy in directions you dislike, than a leader who ineffectively tries to change policy in ways you agree with? Sounds like you are picking the worse of two evils. I’d much, much rather go slowly in the right direction (or stand still) than have an effective leader that works against what I believe in. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/42 "2004-09-11T19:18:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I think it was Ben Franklin who said, “Those who give up freedom for security will have neither.” Nitpick: I’m pretty sure it was “deserve” neither. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/43 "2004-09-11T19:35:12Z")
> [@qts](#): > > I can’t speak for Bill, but in my case the answer is “Absolutely.” Character is one of the prime considerations for choosing a leader. Wait. Pick an issue. Any one you care about. As an example, I’ll pick abortion for myself, an issue I care deeply about. I’m pro-choice. Are you saying it makes sense for me to vote for someone who wants to make abortions illegal, because he has “good character”, whatever that means? Don’t you think it’s a teensy weensy bit more important for me to keep abortions legal? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/44 "2004-09-11T19:37:59Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > So, you’d rather have a strong leader to effectively change policy in directions you dislike, than a leader who ineffectively tries to change policy in ways you agree with? No. I’m saying that I’ll prefer a leader who has strength of character and won’t get pushed around on the international stage. This works better in the American tripartite system than the British one. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/45 "2004-09-11T19:41:01Z")
> [@qts](#): > > I’m saying that I’ll prefer a leader who has strength of character and won’t get pushed around on the international stage. What does this even mean? Can you give concrete examples of being “pushed around on the international stage”? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/46 "2004-09-11T19:46:40Z")
> [@qts](#): > > No. I’m saying that I’ll prefer a leader who has strength of character and won’t get pushed around on the international stage. This works better in the American tripartite system than the British one. But obviously, you’d have to agree with him on international issues, right? You wouldn’t disagree with this hypothetical person completely. In other words, you do care about issues, but you give foreign policy a much higher importance than domestic issues. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/47 "2004-09-11T20:03:09Z")
I don’t forgive Bush for not deploying every ship in the Pacific Fleet to the Yellow Sea, then tell North Korea and China, “Ok, let’s negotiate–for real this time.” What a chicken hawk. And I stress chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/48 "2004-09-11T20:39:02Z")
If Bush is your idea of “good character”, I shudder to think what you would call “bad character”. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/49 "2004-09-11T20:40:45Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > I’m not even sure why I’m registered Republican anymore. Issues-wise, I’m on the other side, almost down the list. Anti-guns, pro-education… How are Republicans anti education? The only major debates I know about education 1. Local school control (usually Republican) VS State/Federal control (usually Democrat) 2. Keeping the current seniority system for teachers (usually Democrat) VS reforming to a pay for performance system (usually Republican) 3. School vouchers (usually pro = Republican, anti = Democrat) Neither side seems “anti-education” to me. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/50 "2004-09-11T21:39:14Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > **Bill H.** , I’m curious. The only person in this thread you’ve responded to is the one who basically said you were brainwashed. Many other posters in this thread have offered cogent, reasoned, and (in my opinion) valid explanations as to why your opinion of Kerry is mistaken, yet you’ve replied to none of them. Why not? > > Honestly, I find it difficult to believe that you can have the beliefs you stated in your OP and yet still will vote for Bush. I mean, I have to take your word that you do hold those beliefs, but in that case I cannot find a better definition of cutting of your nose to spite your face. There’s a name for someone who lobs a stink bomb then retreats. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/51 "2004-09-11T22:26:31Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > But obviously, you’d have to agree with him on international issues, right? You wouldn’t disagree with this hypothetical person completely. > > In other words, you do care about issues, but you give foreign policy a much higher importance than domestic issues. We’re hijacking Bill’s thread, but no. I’ve said what I’ve said and it means no more. Don’t extrapolate to what isn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/52 "2004-09-11T22:39:46Z")
> [@qts](#): > > We’re hijacking Bill’s thread, but no. I’ve said what I’ve said and it means no more. Don’t extrapolate to what isn’t there. It’s pretty relevant to the thread and not a hijack, IMO. And I’m just trying to understand your opinion, it makes no sense to me. Please elaborate on how a leader can gain your vote by not “pushed around on the international stage”, yet also not act on foreign policies you support? Can you give an example, a hypothetical one even? I cannot think of any reasonable situation where a leader would do something related to foreign policy opposite of how I feel they should be done, yet somehow I support them on it for “not being pushed around”. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/53 "2004-09-11T22:46:01Z")
This whole thread is bullshit. It’s obvious that Bill and qts are going to vote for Bush because they’re idiots. They’re just embarrassed to admit that they like what Bush represents, so they’re blaming Kerry rather than publicly embrace Bush. “Character” indeed. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/54 "2004-09-11T22:48:53Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > This whole thread is bullshit. > > It’s obvious that Bill and qts are going to vote for Bush because they’re idiots. They’re just embarrassed to admit that they like what Bush represents, so they’re blaming Kerry rather than publicly embrace Bush. “Character” indeed. :rolleyes: I’d be pretty surprised if **qts** voted for Bush, what with him being British and all. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/55 "2004-09-11T23:13:02Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > It’s pretty relevant to the thread and not a hijack, IMO. And I’m just trying to understand your opinion, it makes no sense to me. > > Please elaborate on how a leader can gain your vote by not “pushed around on the international stage”, yet also not act on foreign policies you support I can give you a smaller example than for President. I interned for a Senator in the state legislature last year. He was a Republican from a rural area of Kansas and, I disagreed with a number of positions he held. For starters, he introduced a bill on English as the national language. There were a number of other positions I disagreed with him on as well. But you know, he was actually a nice guy. And, more importantly, while I disagreed with some of his decisions, I understood why he made them. Sometimes he did it because he was representing a constituent and his or her needs. Sometimes he did it because this was what he truly believed was in the best interest of the district he represented. So I feel it’s possible to still vote for someone based upon the content of his character and not necessarily because his viewpoint coincides completely with yours. Of course, the difference between my example and the ones previously listed is that the things he and I disagreed on were not hot button/make or break issues for me. I’m not sure how I would have felt about voting for him had they been. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/56 "2004-09-11T23:20:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’d be pretty surprised if **qts** voted for Bush, what with him being British and all. Whatever. You know exactly what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/57 "2004-09-11T23:29:42Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Of course, the difference between my example and the ones previously listed is that the things he and I disagreed on were not hot button/make or break issues for me. I’m not sure how I would have felt about voting for him had they been. If you didn’t disagree with him on “hot button/make or break” issues, then the example really is irrelevant to the thread. These folks seem to support politicians even though they disagree with them on nearly all or perhaps all important issues, because of “character issues”. That’s what what boggles my mind. ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/58 "2004-09-11T23:43:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’d be pretty surprised if **qts** voted for Bush, what with him being British and all. He could probably still vote in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/59 "2004-09-12T07:05:06Z")
I just want to say that threads like this would be pretty pointless if **choie** was running Kerry’s campaign. Kerry would have a solid double digit lead and would be a shoo-in for at least 350 electoral votes. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2004, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008/60 "2004-09-12T09:20:52Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Whatever. You know exactly what I mean. Well, how about you offer a reason why I should vote for Kerry other than, “He’s not Bush”? The unwarranted insults aimed at Bush and those who do not support the Democrats do the Democrats a great deal of harm. Bush is **not** stupid - he’s got a MBA and used to fly a jet, neither of which are simple. Bush did extraordinarily well in the aftermath of 9/11. UBL is almost certainly dead. Bush has removed a vicious dictator from power whom almost everyone - including Kerry - were convinced had WMD. We part over the administration of Iraq since - we should have given Saddam a quick trial and then packed up and gone home - but Kerry offers nothing different. Economics? We hear critcism of the current administration but no concrete, budgetted alternative. We hear of a return to the Clinton era, which led to the dotcom bust and Enron. Is Kerry going to repeal the Patriot Act? And it goes on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-ill-be-voting-republican/264008.md?page=4)