# once again, I'm missing the fucking joke **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014 "2003-05-28T14:21:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/21 "2003-05-28T15:18:35Z")
Fifty thousand wrongs don’t make a right, Diogenes. I wouldn’t wish what happened to me or millions of other people male and female on my worst enemy. I don’t subscribe to an eye for an eye. By advocating prison rape, you’re advocating the creation of more rapists. Good work. The thread in question was not suggesting rape is suitable for rapists or child molestors, but for environmental offenders. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/22 "2003-05-28T15:18:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by An Arky \*Seems like it could only occur if a blind eye is turned… Sheeyit. Talk about a literally precise statement… ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/23 "2003-05-28T15:20:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JuanitaTech \* > \*\* I’m not going to, however, tell you to stop finding them funny. \*\* Cut and paste where I told someone to stop finding it funny. I said I don’t get it, because to me it’s so clearly NOT funny. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/24 "2003-05-28T15:21:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The hell it isn’t. Ask any guy what they would fear the most about prison. It isn’t the food. The fear of “Bubba” is probably one of the single most powerful deterrents for comitting crimes. If that threat was removed, prison would suddenly become a lot less scary place. \*\* So, when a guy stands up in court and is sentenced, is he told you are sentenced to 12 years in jail and violent rape? Or is he just sentenced to 12 years in jail? It is not part of the state sanctioned punishment. It is cruel and unusual. It is WRONG. ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/25 "2003-05-28T15:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*The hell it isn’t. Ask any guy what they would fear the most about prison. It isn’t the food. The fear of “Bubba” is probably one of the single most powerful deterrents for comitting crimes. If that threat was removed, prison would suddenly become a lot less scary place. \*\* Egg-zactly. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/26 "2003-05-28T15:24:09Z")
I’m ignoring the thread drift and focusing on the OP. Whether or not what I have to say applies to the prison stuff, I haven’t figured out yet. **Feynn** , Well put. Rape makes someone powerless. If someone is the target of a rape ‘joke’, its because [usually] they’re a criminal who has acted out in some way involving power. Hurting a child, for instance. The rape mechanism is a way to remove power from the criminal, by victimizing him, and by making us all feel better because he is no longer a threat. How can anyone who’s been violated be threatening in our “Blame the victim” culture? Funny? No. Of course it’s not funny. It’s Horrible. But we laugh at lots of things that are horrible, because its a way for us to have control/power over them. It’s not about justice, it’s about fear. One reaction to fear is hysterical giggling, and this has seeped into our cultural literacy as a quick catch-all expression of our shock and loathing. **jarbabyj** , You’re probably ‘getting the joke’ better than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/27 "2003-05-28T15:31:34Z")
Call me callous, **jarbabyj** , but if Scott Peterson ends up tossing a few salads I’m not going to shed any tears or lose any sleep. No, I don’t think it’s funny when it happens to some kid who’s in there for selling rock or breaking into a store, but if someone kidnaps, rapes and murders a five-year old girl I don’t give a shit what happens to him. I WANT something bad to happen to him. It would be dishonest for me to say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/28 "2003-05-28T15:35:36Z")
Don’t think for a minute jar that we’ve blurred the difference between an unwilling, innocent victim and someone who’s getting their just due. What you’ve shared with us makes us all hurt and angry. What some dumbshit has brought upon himself through an agressive or destructive act is an entirely different matter. No one is laughing about rape, just about a deserved comeuppance. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/29 "2003-05-28T15:36:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bandanaman \* > \*\*If you’re in prison, then obviously you didn’t follow the rules. Rape is part of the punishment I guess. \*\* I find that a pretty disturbing idea. You didn’t follow the rules, so you should be raped? _Shudder_ Nobody deserves to be raped (no, not even murders and rapists, although I admitt there are some people it’s hard to work up sympathy for). And obviously many of the people being raped in prison are non-violent offenders (and it’s the violent types doing the raping- what do you think Bubba is in there for?). It’s the idea that this is an appropraite part of punishment for breaking the law that results in so little protection for prisoners from rape. Which is a pretty horrible de facto violation of the eighth amendment. (In other words, what you said, jar :)) ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/30 "2003-05-28T15:45:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _The Bill of Rights… learn it, love it:_ > Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. Institutionalized [rape](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/07/02/world/main514039.shtml) is [barbaric](http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvact.htm) when it happens elsewhere, but is funny when it happens in a developed country? Someone explain. Don’t get me wrong, there people who could suffer misfortune without me batting an eye, but to consider rape and violence as an integral part of our prison system, particularly for non-violent offenders, is something completely different. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/31 "2003-05-28T15:46:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Cut and paste where I told someone to stop finding it funny. I said I don’t get it, because to me it’s so clearly NOT funny. \*\* The _you_ in my post was a general _you_. If my statement was directed at the OP, I would have said so. It’s so much easier to type sentences with _you_ than it is to pepper them with _one_ as in _if one finds something funny then one…_ GingerOfTheNorth, however, seemed to imply that people should not find prison rape funny. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/32 "2003-05-28T15:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\*Don’t think for a minute jar that we’ve blurred the difference between an unwilling, innocent victim and someone who’s getting their just due. What you’ve shared with us makes us all hurt and angry. What some dumbshit has brought upon himself through an agressive or destructive act is an entirely different matter. > > No one is laughing about rape, just about a deserved comeuppance. \*\* So rape is a deserve comeuppance for selling pot or writing bad checks? Why do people keep pretending it’s only the monsters who get raped in jail? ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/33 "2003-05-28T15:52:06Z")
I can see why someone would laugh at prison rape, for a variety of reasons, although it’s been done to death at this stage. What I can’t understand is the mentality displayed by those such as **Diogenes** and **Bandanaman** in proposing that prison rape is a legitimate part of a criminal’s punishment and desirable in that it acts as a deterrent. To take that argument to it’s logical conclusion, why not allow the state to organise the torture and rape of prisoners as a tool of public policy. In fact, to make it more effective, why not do it in public. It’s moral cowardice to stand idly by and hope that the ‘system’ will do its job. If you want it, have the guts to legislate for it. ---
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/34 "2003-05-28T15:53:00Z")
I think **El Elvis Rojo** made a good point by making the analogy to dead baby jokes. The serious topic is not funny at all - it is the act of taking a very serious topic and saying something taboo about it that strikes as “so wrong and funny” to some extent. At first, I thought part of the problem was maybe **Jar** was thinking of the actual event and **Diogenes** was thinking of it in the sense of these dead baby jokes. The alarm seemed to be that **Diogenes** or anyone else could seriously consider rape to be funny. I don’t think **Diogenes** thinks rape is funny. I think he sort of has the attitude of someone looking in through the bars of a murderer who is getting raped and saying, “Yeah, who’s laughing now?” I bet a lot of people feel the same way, for better or for worse. But I think right now, it’s like two bald people arguing over a comb. I think the real disagreement is not about if something is funny or not but if prison rape should be tolerated (by the free public) or not. **Diogenes** seems to be saying, “Yup. You’re in jail. I don’t like rape or advocate it but don’t expect me to champion your cause because you’re getting raped when you’ve killed people.” I don’t like the fact that I bet many people agree with him but there it is. I see your point, **Jar**. Rape isn’t even mildly funny in any form and it isn’t the most sensitive thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/35 "2003-05-28T15:53:28Z")
Crud, I have succumbed. I think the non-consensual aspect of rape is a large part of the “punishment.” The purpose of rape is victimization, which is the whole point. Proponents of comeuppance _want_ the criminals to feel the same degredation, shame, and physical pain that innocent rape victims do. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a horrible punishment. No, it should not be institutionalized in prison. Yes, wishing it on the worst members of our society as a way of revenge is an understandable psychological reaction. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/36 "2003-05-28T15:55:05Z")
> [@](#): > > So rape is a deserve comeuppance for selling pot or writing bad checks? Wwwwhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaattttttttt? ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/37 "2003-05-28T15:57:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by betenoir \* > \*\*I find that a pretty disturbing idea. You didn’t follow the rules, so you should be raped? _Shudder_ > > \*\* Not “should be” raped, but will be. I don’t make the rules, but I am aware of their existance. That’s why Bubba’s not banging me in the rear. I don’t piss into the wind either. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/38 "2003-05-28T15:57:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by betenoir \* > \*\*So rape is a deserve comeuppance for selling pot or writing bad checks? > > Why do people keep pretending it’s only the monsters who get raped in jail? \*\* I don’t think anyone _is_ pretending that. I think what some of us are saying is (or at least what _I’m_ saying, I won’t speak for others) is that when a _monster_ gets turned out, it’s viscerally satisfying. That may not be a virtuous quality, but it’s a natural human response. And why isn’t there the same outrage out the the death penalty? How can we say that someone doesn’t “deserve” to get raped but they do deserve to be killed? How is that logical? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/39 "2003-05-28T16:03:42Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Tiburon_ > \*\*At first, I thought part of the problem was maybe Jar was thinking of the actual event and Diogenes was thinking of it in the sense of these dead baby jokes. The alarm seemed to be that Diogenes or anyone else could seriously consider rape to be funny. > > I don’t think Diogenes thinks rape is funny. I think he sort of has the attitude of someone looking in through the bars of a murderer who is getting raped and saying, “Yeah, who’s laughing now?” I bet a lot of people feel the same way, for better or for worse. > > But I think right now, it’s like two bald people arguing over a comb. I think the real disagreement is not about if something is funny or not but if prison rape should be tolerated (by the free public) or not. Diogenes seems to be saying, “Yup. You’re in jail. I don’t like rape or advocate it but don’t expect me to champion your cause because you’re getting raped when you’ve killed people.” I don’t like the fact that I bet many people agree with him but there it is.\*\* Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014/40 "2003-05-28T16:16:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*And why isn’t there the same outrage out the the death penalty? How can we say that someone doesn’t “deserve” to get raped but they do deserve to be killed? How is that logical? \*\* How the hell do you know my position on the death penalty? Is it just POSSIBLE that I’m outraged by both rape and killing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-again-im-missing-the-fucking-joke/178014.md?page=3)