# Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291 "2011-08-11T02:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![thatguyjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6de8d8/32.png) [@thatguyjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thatguyjeff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/222 "2011-08-15T17:13:41Z")
As far as what would be a cure or considered to be cured of alcoholism… I’ve heard it (alcoholism) described as being a disease of the body and of the mind both. One has a body that can’t use (alcohol). One has a mind that can’t NOT use (alcohol). The above is based on the concept that an alcoholic is not capable of consuming alcohol safely/moderately. But the alcoholic is of a mind that can’t leave alcohol alone. The alcoholic obsesses about alcohol whether they are actively using or not. AA works (if/when it does work at all) by temporarily relieving the alcoholic of the mental obsession. The alcoholic gets a “reprieve” from their obsession. That’s why the alcoholic is never “cured,” because the reprieve is temporary. The obsession will return (sooner or later) without continued participation in the program. Based on the above, I would consider alcoholism “cured” if both of the following occur: 1. the alcoholic is able to use alcohol in moderation and control their drinking; and 2. the alcoholic no longer obsesses about alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![biddee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@biddee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biddee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/223 "2011-08-15T17:58:32Z")
For those who consider alcoholism/addiction a disease, how do you explain alcoholics/addicts who once they have changed their lifestyle (ie gotten a better house/job/family) are able to go from a constant drinker/user so someone who drinks/uses very occasionally on a recreational basis. I know someone who has done just that. He got a much better job and house and has since pretty much stopped obsessing about drinking and doing drugs. He says he doesn’t even feel the need anymore. This is a 40 year old who has been in and out of rehab and tried AA/NA but kept falling off the wagon. I actually know a lot of people who have managed to go from being what many would consider an alcoholic to a social drinker once they grew up and got a family/job whatever. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/224 "2011-08-15T19:40:33Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > For those who consider alcoholism/addiction a disease ??? You mean the AMA ? [http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/alcohol/alcoholism\_treatable.pdf](http://www.ama-assn.org/resources/doc/alcohol/alcoholism_treatable.pdf) > [@](#): > > H-95.983 Drug Dependencies as Diseases > The AMA > > 1. endorses the proposition that drug dependencies, including alcoholism, are diseases and that their treatment is a > legitimate part of medical practice, and > 2. encourages physicians, other health professionals, medical and other health related organizations, and > government and other policymakers to become more well informed about drug dependencies, and to base their > policies and activities on the recognition that drug dependencies are, in fact, diseases. (Res. 113, A-87) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/225 "2011-08-15T19:43:40Z")
> [@biddee](#): > > For those who consider alcoholism/addiction a disease, how do you explain alcoholics/addicts who once they have changed their lifestyle (ie gotten a better house/job/family) are able to go from a constant drinker/user so someone who drinks/uses very occasionally on a recreational basis. I know someone who has done just that. Not every heavy drinker is an alcoholic. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/226 "2011-08-15T20:10:52Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > I am jealous of any disease/condition where a daily meeting of support and fellowship can offer help. > I wish like hell I did not need to take drugs to manage/control MY terrible, awful disease. > I hate these fucking pills. Prednisone keeps me alive for now, but may kill me in the end. > If I had a choice … prednisone or daily spiritual meetings ??? > Hmmmmmmmmmm. > I’d go to meetings and repeat the same shit every day. > Hell, I’d go twice a day … Perspective is “sobering”. I don’t think you want to get into which disease is “worse,” because I can guarantee addiction is just as ugly/life threatening as any other disease out there. Don’t get me wrong, I empathize and would never belittle your condition and the fact that you have to take medications that have bad side effects. I’m sorry you have to go through that, and I’m sure it’s severe, but don’t make the assumption that because programs like AA help some people that it’s any kind of cure all or great solution. Daily meetings and fellowship can probably offer you as much help for your disease as it does for most addicts. That’s to say, support and mental help, but no real “treatment” for the physical disease that ails you. I hesitate to come out with it, but fuck it, yes, I have battled drug addiction (along with severe depression and bipolar, woo fun fun) my entire adult life, and there have been many many times that I’ve felt like I’d be better off with any other “disease” than the ones I have. It isn’t an overstatement to say that there have been several times when my life was in serious danger, and I know that this thing is life-threatening and will kill me if I don’t take care of myself and do what I’m supposed to do. And IMO, a care regimen that includes taking a drug that has been proven to help addicts stop abusing their drug-of-choice is far more effective, and ideal, than the “god” prescription of AA and other 12 step programs. I’m an atheist, and I can try all I want to twist that program around to somehow fit that I don’t believe in that “higher power,” but it’s never going to work for me. And, as the research shows, it doesn’t really work for people who believe in god either. Some of the current drugs that treat drug and alcohol addiction, like methadone and suboxone for opiate addiction, are controversial, but they have been infinitely more effective and successful than 12-step programs. They are what is known as “harm reduction” programs, which is exactly what it sounds like. > **[Harm reduction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_reduction)** > > Harm reduction, or harm minimization, refers to a range of intentional practices and public health policies designed to lessen the negative social and/or physical consequences associated with various human behaviors, both legal and illegal. Harm reduction is used to decrease negative consequences of recreational drug use and sexual activity without requiring abstinence, recognizing that those unable or unwilling to stop can still make positive change to protect themselves and others. > Harm red... As more research and development is put into drugs to treat drug and alcohol addiction, ideally, the negative side effects will be fewer and fewer while the efficacy of treatment increases. Again, I think that’s far more promising than more wasted time and energy, not to mention the questionable morality of prescribing “god” as a treatment. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/227 "2011-08-15T20:47:12Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > but don’t make the assumption that because programs like AA help some people that it’s any kind of cure all or great solution. I have never made the assumption that AA is a “cure all”. AA has helped millions. Not a cure. Yes, a “great solution”. But not a cure. You are correct there. Nor is methadone a cure. There are a hell of a lot more potential lethal side effects from methadone than a group meeting. > [@](#): > > Daily meetings and fellowship can probably offer you as much help for your disease as it does for most addicts. That’s to say, support and mental help, but no real “treatment” for the physical disease that ails you. LOL Thanks. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in favor for properly prescribed medications. Hell, I can and did write narcotic prescriptions during my tenure as an RNP. I used to prescribe methadone when I worked in a chronic pain clinic. Writing an RX for M was always a moment of trepidation. Addicts are fantastic liars. Prescribing a controlled substance to a fantastic liar takes balls of steel. I was forced into retirement … health reasons. I should have attended some meetings. Damn! Missed opportunity.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/228 "2011-08-15T20:56:49Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I hesitate to come out with it, but fuck it, yes, I have battled drug addiction (along with severe depression and bipolar, woo fun fun) my entire adult life, and there have been many many times that I’ve felt like I’d be better off with any other “disease” than the ones I have. It isn’t an overstatement to say that there have been several times when my life was in serious danger, and I know that this thing is life-threatening and will kill me if I don’t take care of myself and do what I’m supposed to do. I totally understand. I sincerely hope you are doing fantastically well now. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/229 "2011-08-15T20:57:57Z")
I tend to agree if the person really is an alcoholic. There are some people that drank heavily and stop. Then years later they take a drink now and then and don’t fall into heavy drinking. But, they weren’t really alcoholic to begin with. Someone’s lifestyle can cause them to drink heavily. For example soldiers in Viet Nam. Alcohol was an escape and recreation. After getting back home a lot of Vets had no problem stopping or cutting way back. Some vets were alcoholic and couldn’t stop without help. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/230 "2011-08-15T21:07:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I tend to agree if the person really is an alcoholic. > > There are some people that drank heavily and stop. Then years later they take a drink now and then and don’t fall into heavy drinking. But, they weren’t really alcoholic to begin with. Someone’s lifestyle can cause them to drink heavily. For example soldiers in Viet Nam. Alcohol was an escape and recreation. After getting back home a lot of Vets had no problem stopping or cutting way back. Some vets were alcoholic and couldn’t stop without help. This is disturbing in a way. What if someone has a situational drinking problem, goes to the most common and advertised program out there(AA), is told that are addicted to alcohol forever and dare not take even one drink lest they fall off the wagon…and it turns out that maybe, with professional help, they _could_ have controlled it all that time. Am I wrong in thinking that AA takes all who show up to the meetings, without question? I don’t know which is worse in a case like this: self diagnosis, or a group diagnosis by others predisposed by their own history to mark someone as a life-long alcoholic? ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/231 "2011-08-15T21:10:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > a group diagnosis by others predisposed by their own history to mark someone as a life-long alcoholic? AA is based on attraction, not recruitment. No one in AA makes a diagnosis of or “marks” another attendee. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/232 "2011-08-15T21:22:36Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > AA is based on attraction, not recruitment. > No one in AA makes a diagnosis of or “marks” another attendee. A person who self-diagnoses as an alcoholic is accepted as an alcoholic by a group of people predisposed to not question the self diagnosis because of their own history, and is told that she/he will be an alcoholic forever, correct? ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/233 "2011-08-15T21:44:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A person who self-diagnoses as an alcoholic is accepted as an alcoholic by a group of people predisposed to not question the self diagnosis because of their own history, and is told that she/he will be an alcoholic forever, correct? Correct. They are told that they will be an alcoholic forever. Also, they are asked to follow the 12 steps and accept a higher power. They are told that being an alcoholic isn’t their fault and there’s nothing they can do to change it. They are forever labeled as an alcoholic and they are told never to drink again. In their eyes, taking one sip of alcohol indicates a relapse. Alcohol is considered the devil. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/234 "2011-08-15T21:47:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What if someone has a situational drinking problem, goes to the most common and advertised program out there(AA), is told that are addicted to alcohol forever and dare not take even one drink lest they fall off the wagon… But that’s not what AA says to new people–it’s a common meme, and it’s been dispelled here over and over, but for some reason people cling to this idea. In fact–and someone correct me if I’m wrong–AA literature actually suggests that people try controlled drinking before deciding if AA is right for them. People in AA and NA will tell you: “Only you yourself can determine if you’re an addict.” They don’t want people to join unless they really are sure they need it and want it. What would be the point in doing it otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/235 "2011-08-15T21:49:17Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > But that’s not what AA says to new people–it’s a common meme, and it’s been dispelled here over and over, but for some reason people cling to this idea. In fact–and someone correct me if I’m wrong–AA literature actually suggests that people try controlled drinking before deciding if AA is right for them. People in AA and NA will tell you: “Only you yourself can determine if you’re an addict.” They don’t want people to join unless they really are sure they need it and want it. What would be the point in doing it otherwise? Can you cite “controlled drinking?” In this case, I would very much like to see a cite for this. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/236 "2011-08-15T21:50:35Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > But that’s not what AA says to new people–it’s a common meme, and it’s been dispelled here over and over, but for some reason people cling to this idea. In fact–and someone correct me if I’m wrong–AA literature actually suggests that people try controlled drinking before deciding if AA is right for them. People in AA and NA will tell you: “Only you yourself can determine if you’re an addict.” They don’t want people to join unless they really are sure they need it and want it. What would be the point in doing it otherwise? But that is exactly what I’m pointing out here-they encourage self diagnosis of a _disease_, and they unquestioningly accept that self-diagnosis. Do you not see the problem with this? edited to add: Does AA encourage the newcomer to seek _professional help_ to try to moderate the drinking? ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/237 "2011-08-15T21:59:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A person who self-diagnoses as an alcoholic is accepted as an alcoholic by a group of people predisposed to not question the self diagnosis because of their own history, and is told that she/he will be an alcoholic forever, correct? How do you think a physician diagnoses alcohol abuse? I’ll tell you. It’s not too dissimilar from the AA questions. The undiagnosed are more worrisome to me than any (rare) wrongly self diagnosed. The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking. No diagnosis necessary. There is no known worrisome side effect (that I know of) if any non-alkie mistakingly stops drinking ! > [@](#): > > Answer YES or NO to the following questions. > > 1 - Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days? > Most of us in A.A. made all kinds of promises to ourselves and to our families. We could not keep them. Then we came to A.A. A.A. said: “Just try not to drink today.” (If you do not drink today, you cannot get drunk today.) > Yes No > > 2 - Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do? > In A.A. we do not tell anyone to do anything. We just talk about our own drinking, the trouble we got into, and how we stopped. We will be glad to help you, if you want us to. > Yes No > > 3 - Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another in the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? > We tried all kinds of ways. We made our drinks weak. Or just drank beer. Or we did not drink cocktails. Or only drank on weekends. You name it, we tried it. But if we drank anything with alcohol in it, we usually got drunk eventually. > Yes No > > 4 - Have you had to have an eye-opener upon awakening during the past year? > Do you need a drink to get started, or to stop shaking? This is a pretty sure sign that you are not drinking “socially.” > Yes No > > 5 - Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble? > At one time or another, most of us have wondered why we were not like most people, who really can take it or leave it. > Yes No > > 6 - Have you had problems connected with drinking during the past year? > Be honest! Doctors say that if you have a problem with alcohol and keep on drinking, it will get worse – never better. Eventually, you will die, or end up in an institution for the rest of your life. The only hope is to stop drinking. > Yes No > > 7 - Has your drinking caused trouble at home? > Before we came into A.A., most of us said that it was the people or problems at home that made us drink. We could not see that our drinking just made everything worse. It never solved problems anywhere or anytime. > Yes No > > 8 - Do you ever try to get “extra” drinks at a party because you do not get enough? > Most of us used to have a “few” before we started out if we thought it was going to be that kind of party. And if drinks were not served fast enough, we would go some place else to get more. > Yes No > > 9 - Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don’t mean to? > Many of us kidded ourselves into thinking that we drank because we wanted to. After we came into A.A., we found out that once we started to drink, we couldn’t stop. > Yes No > > 10 - Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking? > Many of us admit now that we “called in sick” lots of times when the truth was that we were hung-over or on a drunk. > Yes No > > 11 - Do you have “blackouts”? > A “blackout” is when we have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember. When we came to A.A., we found out that this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking. > Yes No > > 12 - Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink? > Many of us started to drink because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while. By the time we got into A.A., we felt trapped. We were drinking to live and living to drink. We were sick and tired of being sick and tired. > Yes No ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/238 "2011-08-15T22:49:03Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > How do you think a physician diagnoses alcohol abuse? > …The undiagnosed are more worrisome to me than any (rare) wrongly self diagnosed. Yes. I doctor isn’t going to be able to take your blood sample and then tell you that you’re alcoholic. S/he will just ask you those same basic questions. The people I know that ended up in NA or AA had no difficulty knowing that they had a problem. They’d already been to doctors, prescribed medication, or gone to fancy rehabs. Basically, they were miserable, and as one friend put it, “I didn’t have problems every time I drank, but more and more I could see that the majority of my real problems stemmed from drinking.” In different ways they ended up in AA or NA, and from everything I could observe, it turned them around. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/239 "2011-08-15T23:18:29Z")
> [@pinkyvee](#): > > I have never made the assumption that AA is a “cure all”. > AA has helped millions. > Not a cure. > Yes, a “great solution”. But not a cure. You are correct there. > Nor is methadone a cure. > There are a hell of a lot more potential lethal side effects from methadone than a group meeting. I didn’t mean to suggest that methadone is a cure, or that it doesn’t have serious side effects. It is a very controversial issu, and methadone maintainence is not something I’d ever suggest someone enter into lightly. It has a great success rate when administered properly and monitored by professionals, but like I said before, it’s a risk management type of treatment, not a cure. > [@](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I’m all in favor for properly prescribed medications. > Hell, I can and did write narcotic prescriptions during my tenure as an RNP. > I used to prescribe methadone when I worked in a chronic pain clinic. > Writing an RX for M was always a moment of trepidation. > Addicts are fantastic liars. Prescribing a controlled substance to a fantastic liar takes balls of steel. Well, yeah, again, that’s why methadone treatment is done at clinics where patients start out by going in every day for their dose, not given medication to take home until they have done certain things and pass their drug tests, etc. The other drugs I was talking about for alcoholism aren’t controlled substances, as far as I know. My point was that I like the direction addiction treatment is headed, and hopefully, with more research and development, the drugs will only get better and better. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/240 "2011-08-15T23:28:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A person who self-diagnoses as an alcoholic is accepted as an alcoholic by a group of people predisposed to not question the self diagnosis because of their own history, and is told that she/he will be an alcoholic forever, correct? Why don’t you go to a meeting and see for yourself? They have open meetings where non- AA members can sit in. For the record, A.A.s stance on diagnosing someone as alcoholic: > [@](#): > > We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself, step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition. From chapter 3. [Link](http://www.healtalk.com/public/chapter-3.shtml). Nothing like a little empirical research. I carried out that research for about 12 years before I decided that I was an alcoholic. I’ve told quite a few people to go out and try controlled drinking. It is pretty easy, if you are an alkie, to prove to yourself that you are an alkie. As far as it goes, the only person that can really know they are an alkie is the alkie\*. On a side note, I’ve never in 7 years heard anyone in A.A. diagnose anyone but themselves as an alcoholic. Every time someone asks (and it happens fairly often) the response is ‘try controlled drinking’ and ‘read [this](http://www.aa.org/subpage.cfm?page=71)’ followed by ‘If you want to talk…’. Being alcoholic isn’t just about drinking too much, it is about the feelings you get when you _can’t_ drink. The panic and fear I went through when I couldn’t get a drink was really insane. The best way I have found to describe it is like not being able to breathe. When I couldn’t have a drink and I needed one it felt like I was under water way too deep and needed a breath. That full on ‘Holy Shit, I need it NOW or I am gonna die’ feeling. That feeling, and all the bad shit you will do to eliminate the feeling, are what being an alkie is about, at least for me. A.A. does work with professionals. [Linky](http://www.aa.org/subpage.cfm?page=8). There are committees on the medical aspects. Also, A.A. does recommend treatment for associated issues, like depression. Slee \*From the outside it is pretty easy to see if someone has a drinking problem. However, the question then becomes are they just abusing alcohol or full on alcoholic. [Linky](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001940/)on the difference. IMHO, the difference is slight but important. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/241 "2011-08-15T23:49:24Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > Correct. They are told that they will be an alcoholic forever. Also, they are asked to follow the 12 steps and accept a higher power. They are told that being an alcoholic isn’t their fault and there’s nothing they can do to change it. They are forever labeled as an alcoholic and they are told never to drink again. In their eyes, taking one sip of alcohol indicates a relapse. Alcohol is considered the devil. This sounds like someone who has never been to AA. No one “tells you” that you are an alcoholic. That is up to you to decide. The 12 steps are offered as one way to quit drinking, but no one says it is the only way. No one says alcoholism “isn’t [your] fault”, and they don’t say there is “nothing you can do” to change it. No one “labels” you forever, and no one tells you not to drink. The only requirement for AA is the _desire_ to stop drinking. Alcohol is not considered by AA to be “the devil”. Alcohol is not good _for alcoholics_; there is nothing inherently bad about alcohol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291.md?page=13)