# Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291 "2011-08-11T02:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/41 "2011-08-11T13:47:16Z")
Is alcohol causing a problem in your life, yes or no? You don’t have to drink every day to have a problem with booze, you don’t have to get in trouble every time you drink to have a problem with booze. If you’re having a problem, though, the best thing would be to _stop drinking_ so you won’t have that particular problem any more. > [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Well, they might seem pretty weak to you. But for me, on weekend nights, I have one of two choices: sit at home and do nothing. Or go out with some friends, have a good time, and hopefully meet a nice girl. Now which one sounds more appealing? Hmmm??? You need to learn how to have a good time without needing that drink. It is possible to “have a good time” and “meet a nice girl” without the alcohol in your hand. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/42 "2011-08-11T14:11:12Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > So then there are times when you do in fact _crave_ it? 'Cause that’s really the issue. Whether you have the “will power,” “good character,” or “discipline” to resist the craving is ancillary. What, exactly, is so wrong with craving alcohol at times? Sometimes I crave nachos or carrot sticks. Is the difference that alcohol is unhealthy? I never understood this line of reasoning that if you ever “crave” (ooh, spooky word!) a drink every now and again that something is wrong. So drinks are supposed to be this delicious wonderful thing that makes you feel good, but you’re never supposed to want it? A constant craving or inability to function or enjoy oneself without alcohol, yes, is a problem, but ever craving at all? Yes, people like and crave things that are good. Big deal. > [@An\_Gadai](#): > > And the Buzz Killington award goes to… 🙂 Oh, and another one of “AA is a prohibitionist cult that takes advantage of people.” ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/43 "2011-08-11T14:12:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Hospitals are full of people who thought they could fight it – read up on cirrhosis sometime and end stage liver disease. It’s a truly horrible way to go. Indeed they are. I got to watch a friend bleed to death last year, liver failure. Was not a nice way to go, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/44 "2011-08-11T14:50:08Z")
See, the only thing more common than booze is individual definitions of what “alcoholic” or “problem” is. Definitely listen to all of them, but keep in mind there’s a zillion of them, and most of them don’t fit you. You have to drink everyday? That’s not me! You have to sneak a drink in the morning? Not me! Have to beat your spouse, kids and pets? Not me! Have to get fired? Not me! Get a DUI? Not me! Piss yourself? Not me! Throw up? Not me! Black out? Not me! Blah, blah. Don’t pat yourself on the back and write yourself a free pass because you don’t fit someone else’s criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/45 "2011-08-11T15:33:36Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Well, they might seem pretty weak to you. But for me, on weekend nights, I have one of two choices: sit at home and do nothing. Or go out with some friends, have a good time, and hopefully meet a nice girl. Now which one sounds more appealing? Hmmm??? Why are those the only two choices? I can think of at least one other. – Go out with some friends, have a good time, and hopefully meet a nice girl, _without ever ingesting alcohol_. Why is that choice denied to you? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/46 "2011-08-11T15:53:53Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What, exactly, is so wrong with craving alcohol at times? Sometimes I crave nachos or carrot sticks. Is the difference that alcohol is unhealthy? The difference is the neurobiological interaction that alcohol has with certain proteins in the brain (such as GABA, glutamate, and most importantly dopamine and serotonin). More and more research seems to show that with people who demonstrate “alcoholic” tendency, these neurotransmitters have become sensitized (altered) by combination with alcohol to the point where pleasure (or simply an ordinary sense of ease) increasingly requires alcohol (or something similar)–hence craving. Carrots don’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/47 "2011-08-11T15:57:30Z")
Welcome to the Dope **Scotty Mo** , where benefit of the doubt is as common as bird teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/48 "2011-08-11T16:02:41Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Carrots don’t do this. Well, it’s funny that you mention carrots, specifically, because [maybe they do](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8902181&dopt=Abstract): > [@](#): > > Compu[l]sive carrot eating, regarded as a rare condition, has received scant documentation, unlike hypercarotenemia due to unusual diets or food fads. Nervousness, craving, insomnia, waterbrash and irritability are associated with withdrawal from excessive carrot eating. The basis for the addiction is believed to be beta carotene, found in carrots. Does carrot eating, an aggressively oral activity, merely act as a behavioural substitute for smoking? Or does beta carotene contain a chemical element that replicates the addictive component of nicotine? Further study of this unusual but intriguing addiction may reveal more about the basis of all addictions, with particular implications for the cessation of cigarette smoking. Also [here](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1360-0443.1992.tb02007.x/abstract): > [@](#): > > The paper describes three cases of dependence on carotenoids with typical symptoms of irritability and nervousness accompanying their abstinence, with a long-term dependence, and an inability to simply discontinue. Three patients (a man and two women) all being smokers, evaluated this dependence as very similar to that on tobacco. The limitation of Junker use had the same effect in both cases. The women evaluate the dependence as stronger than that on cigarettes, the man as somewhat weaker. The former patient–a woman–even relapsed, and recently found herself in danger of further relapse. This, however, she nipped in the bud. Laboratory enzyme examinations revealed a disorder in the enzymatic outfit affecting the auto-immunity and the neurovegetative system. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/49 "2011-08-11T16:06:20Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > You don’t actually believe that anyone who has ever been arrested for “drunk driving” is de facto an alcoholic, do you? Of course not, just like not everyone who has taken a shot of tequila after a bad breakup is an alcoholic. The point was that alcoholics are defined by how much power alcohol has over their life. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/50 "2011-08-11T16:06:55Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What, exactly, is so wrong with craving alcohol at times? Sometimes I crave nachos or carrot sticks. Is the difference that alcohol is unhealthy? That, and nachos and carrot sticks probably never helped anyone get laid. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/51 "2011-08-11T16:08:16Z")
@ guizot & Ascenray: And there’s been a lot of hoopla about fatty foods actually being addictive. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/52 "2011-08-11T16:14:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, it’s funny that you mention carrots, specifically, because [maybe they do](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8902181&dopt=Abstract): Interesting. And there’s the advantage that they don’t slur your speech or get you fired. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/53 "2011-08-11T16:15:28Z")
Apparently, alcoholism is an incurable disease that can be diagnosed with the barest minimum of personal information without the need to see the patient, and said diagnosis can be made by anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/54 "2011-08-11T16:16:55Z")
Only a low-down dirty drunk would say something like that. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/55 "2011-08-11T16:32:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Apparently, alcoholism is an incurable disease that can be diagnosed with the barest minimum of personal information without the need to see the patient, and said diagnosis can be made by anybody. Maybe it’s like Justice Stewart and obscenity: “I know it when I see it.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/56 "2011-08-11T17:02:57Z")
\_People have great variations. Some people who have had drinking problems are able to handle it after awhile. But the majority can not. That is why you have to emphasize ones who can not. The vast majority can not and if you hoping you might be a lucky one ,you are playing with fire. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/57 "2011-08-11T17:19:04Z")
I don’t think any of us here knows whether Scotty is an alcoholic. But I think there are some issues he could help clarify, such as why he seems to think that the only alternative to drinking alcohol is to “sit at home and do nothing.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/58 "2011-08-11T17:31:08Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > \_People have great variations. Some people who have had drinking problems are able to handle it after awhile. But the majority can not. That is why you have to emphasize ones who can not. The vast majority can not and if you hoping you might be a lucky one ,you are playing with fire. What is the official definition of “drinking problem”, and where are the cites that show what percentage of the population can handle said “drinking problem”? ---
**Author:** ![Izzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/67e7ee/32.png) [@Izzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Izzi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/59 "2011-08-11T17:41:45Z")
You talk about drinking on the weekends. What happens during the week? Do you find other ways to “relax”? IE: Do you ever use other substances? It would not suprise me that you also smoke pot. To me, you have a problem when you look to any substance to alter your feelings or thought processes. Life is a long road and if you need the boost now (at 25) to get you through the night, what will you need in the future? And meeting girls - well, most girls may enjoy your antics at the bar, but they will not want you around in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291/60 "2011-08-11T17:48:05Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > That, and nachos and carrot sticks probably never helped anyone get laid. Huh? :dubious: People that use alcohol to get laid have serious confidence issues… Very serious! Using a drug to help you get laid is just sad in every sense of the word. > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > Lots of people go out Saturday night and have a few drinks without getting off-their-tits drunk. If you get shitfaced every time you go out for drinks, that sounds like you have a problem. Yes, There are many people who are able to go out and only have a few drinks without getting plastered. If you drink just to get plastered then you have a serious problem. > [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t think any of us here knows whether Scotty is an alcoholic. But I think there are some issues he could help clarify, such as why he seems to think that the only alternative to drinking alcohol is to “sit at home and do nothing.” There are plenty of things to do besides drinking. I’m not going to list all the things there are to do besides drinking because the list will be endless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-an-alcoholic-always-an-alcoholic/592291.md?page=4)