Another possible factor is that the average person these days has had a lot more experience in taking tests like the IQ tests. Just practice at taking multiple-choice tests can make you do better when taking those tests.
That might be cause for worry if they’re weren’t 4,352 colleges, universities, and junior colleges in this country.
I find it hard to believe that 97% of the colleges in the US are worthless.
I would love to see proof that education and intelligence have a positive correlation with being a good person, alas, from my time on this planet I have yet to see it.
I read B.F. Skinner’s book Walden Two in college and it’s left a mark on me ever since, although not a society I’d personally want to live in he makes a compelling case about a structured commune that I’ve never been able to see fault. Skinner argues that humans in a safe and happy environment will seek out education for it’s own sake something Gene Roddenberry also assumes in his Star Trek world. Skinner argues education is in fact a byproduct of a good social structure.
This has been debated endlessly, but in real tangible terms, there is a very real difference between graduating with a degree from Harvard or some other top school vs an equivalent degree from an nth tier college.
1 - some people are arguing the propensity to learn as intelligence. does that matter? does that affect “intelligence” ? would you be able to have an “intelligent” conversation with cavemen just because they have the exact same propensity to learn? WHAT we learn is so much more important than aptitude.
2 - in bettering society, knowledge is not as important as what we do with that knowledge. anyone read Into the Wild? one of my friends knew him. went to arguably one of the best HS’s in the nation at TJ in northern virginia. graduated from Emory. the heft of the world’s problems weighed heavily on his mind, turned ascetic and effectively committed a slow suicide by running off into the alaskan wilderness. some call it a noble crusade against materialism. those who knew him saw it as a nervous breakdown of a gifted genius.
rationality is what economists base their theories on. irrationality is what dominates society. what we know and what we do often conflict and it’s in those moments of irrationality that we do stupid things - punch someone out, squander our paychecks on booze/drugs, have affairs, etc. knowing right and wrong vs doing right and wrong. you can’t teach “doing” right and wrong. you might be able to breed it though…
True. But that assumes only Harvard and its ilk are “good” colleges. If you say there are only 146 good colleges in the whole country, that’s less than three per state. Hell, there are 50 colleges in the Boston area alone. How many besides Harvard are considered “good”?
Excuse me, where did gonzomax say that only the top 146 colleges are good? Top is not equivalent to good.
I believe his data, and I don’t think it comes only from affordability. I’ve noticed that people who have been to top schools can tell the difference between a top school and a good but lower rated school, whereas people who haven’t can’t. It might come from the fact that some mediocre schools (and I have a degree from one) bang their own drums so loudly that the graduate might be excused for thinking they are wonderful. They may also be less willing to pay a premium for a top school.
List them in order in quality from top to bottom, all thousands of them. Then take the top 146. There you go. Not that confusing at all.
Then doesn’t the statement become pretty worthless? Look at any listing of top colleges, almost all of them are horribly expensive. The reason only wealthy people attend them is because they can afford it. Meanwhile, Johnny NoParents goes to a state school, gets a degree, gets a nice office job and moves out of his ramshackle falling down house in a bad neighborhood. Did he fail because he’s now above the poverty line but still not rich?
Look, the statistic that Harvard and the top tier colleges only enroll 3% of their students from the bottom quartile isn’t exactly a horrifying statistic.
Sure, there’s a big difference between your career prospects if you graduate from Harvard vs. a run of the mill state college. But that doesn’t mean that your life is over if you don’t get into Harvard. Lots of people go on to have satisfying lives even after attending Vassar or Brown.
Social mobility is good. But not everyone can catapult from the bottom tier to the top in one leap when they are 18 years old.
With regard to college attendance vs. rich/poor people, it should also be considered that affordability is not the only factor. People from well to do families are often encouraged/forced to do well in their school work, which means by the time they’ve reached college age they are much more likely to both see the value in a college education and to have developed the study skills necessary to pass the courses. People from a poor background and the culture that often surrounds it are less likely to value education and less likely to work hard to do well at school. Thus they are not only unlikely to want to go to college in the first place but they would be woefully unprepared in the event they did.
Not at all. I don’t have the list, but I am sure there are many state schools in it. Expensive, yes, horribly expensive, no. And, while it is great that students at the bottom economically can go to a good or even fair school, wouldn’t it be nice if anyone with the ability to succeed in a top school get the shot regardless of money?
However, the statistics aren’t all about money for tuition, since I’m sure the lack of decent schools for these kids explains at least some of it.
And not everyone who goes to a top school becomes rich, as I can personally testify.
ETA: as SA just said.
I read a study awhile ago that looked at how different classes valued higher education, in essence it concluded that the upper class saw education as a networking tool where you went and who you met is what mattered (which in my mind makes a great case for Ivy League prestige pricing and not necessarily value for money) the middle class saw education as an opportunity to get necessary skills for a better job and the lower class saw education as a liability in furthering their assumed future in ‘blue -collar’ jobs.
While the studies results look like confirmation bias it’s sure hard to reason any other conclusion.
The point that was being made in the program, with the study, was the growing separation in America between the rich and poor. It was buttressing an argument that the rich go to their own schools and do not mix. They don’t use public transportation. They don’t go to the same restaurants, live in the same neighborhoods, work out in the same gyms, golf the same courses or most everything else. The separation of the rich and poor is getting worse as the financial divide grows.
The idea that America is getting smarter is incomplete. Rich America may well be. Poor America is not and they know it. They know their opportunities are limited. That is why so many just opt out.