# Once more: “How dare you say we’re violent? Death to you!” **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2006, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819 "2006-10-01T08:30:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/1 "2006-10-01T08:30:54Z")
Story [here](http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/brussels092906.htm) (and elsewhere. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile in France, a philosophy teacher is under police protection after receiving death threats over an op-ed article [French text here] which he wrote in a national newspaper. In the article, which was published in the conservative daily Le Figaro of September 19th, Robert Redeker accused Islam of “exalting violence.” Mr Redeker has not attended classes at his school near Toulouse since the article was published. Pierre Rousselin, the editor in chief of Le Figaro, apologized on Al-jazeera for the publication of the article. A number of Islamic countries, including Egypt, banned Le Figaro following the publication of Redeker’s piece. Mr Rousselin said the publication of the op-ed was a mistake. He said the article did not express the paper’s opinion. The article is no longer available on the Figaro website. > Mr Redeker has written a letter to his friend, the philosopher Andrי Glucksmann, describing his ordeal [French text here]: > “I am now in a catastrophic personal situation. Several death threats have been sent to me, and I have been sentenced to death by organizations of the al-Qaeda movement. […] On the websites condemning me to death there is a map showing how to get to my house to kill me, they have my photo, the places where I work, the telephone numbers, and the death fatwa. […] There is no safe place for me, I have to beg, two evenings here, two evenings there. […] I am under the constant protection of the police. I must cancel all scheduled conferences. And the authorities urge me to keep moving. […] All costs are at my own expense, including those of rents a month or two ahead, the costs of moving twice, legal expenses, etc. > It’s quite sad. I exercised my constitutional rights, and I am punished for it, even in the territory of the Republic. This affair is also an attack against national sovereignty foreign rules, decided by criminally minded fanatics, punish me for having exercised a constitutional right, and I am subjected, even in France, to great injury.” Is there a solution other than giving in? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/2 "2006-10-01T08:45:10Z")
The whole situation has always reminded me of someone being told to calm down and then screaming “I AM CALM!!!” ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/3 "2006-10-01T11:08:37Z")
So, was he wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/4 "2006-10-01T13:47:24Z")
Good Lord… What the hell is going on over there? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/5 "2006-10-01T14:12:37Z")
The precipitating article is pretty inflammatory and provocative. I’d go so far as sacreligious: e.g. > [@](#): > > ..Haine et violence habitent le livre dans lequel tout musulman est éduqué, le Coran… This is about as offensive to Islamic sensibility as you can get. There’s more earlier > [@](#): > > Dans l’ouverture à autrui, propre à l’Occident, se manifeste une sécularisation du christianisme, dont le fond se résume ainsi : l’autre doit toujours passer avant moi. L’Occidental, héritier du christianisme, est l’être qui met son âme à découvert. Il prend le risque de passer pour faible. À l’identique de feu le communisme, l’islam tient la générosité, l’ouverture d’esprit, la tolérance, la douceur, la liberté de la femme et des moeurs, les valeurs démocratiques, pour des marques de décadence. > > Ce sont des faiblesses qu’il veut exploiter au moyen «d’idiots utiles», les bonnes consciences imbues de bons sentiments, afin d’imposer l’ordre coranique au monde occidental lui-même. > > Le Coran est un livre d’inouïe violence. [Found here](http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1142&Itemid=45) , it’s the sort of vilification that has been a feature of this board lately and iit’s no wonder some people have become a little tetchy. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/6 "2006-10-01T14:18:59Z")
Can anyone translate? Please? ---
**Author:** ![Stalky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@Stalky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stalky)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/7 "2006-10-01T14:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] it’s the sort of vilification that has been a feature of this board lately and iit’s no wonder some people have become a little tetchy. [/QUOTE] You aren’t suggesting that these Islamic groups have the right to post his location, information and call for his death by fatwa, are you? An important part of free speech is alowing people to say thing we disagree with, even strongly disagree with. The European press is losing free speech to a bunch of thugs and your sentiment is “Heh, looks like they deserved it!” That’s beyond the pale my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/8 "2006-10-01T14:26:21Z")
From what I understood using Google Language tools (a hardly adequate translation), there’s nothing really surprising or new in what he wrote. I totally agree with it. The Quran is quite violent in the same way that the Bible is violent (at least the OT - the NT succeeds in moderating the baser aspects of the OT, imo). ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/9 "2006-10-01T14:27:19Z")
Sorry, heated: 1 - Hatred and violence inhabit the text in which every “musulman” is tutored: The Koran. (relevantly) 2 - Islam takes generosity, spiritual overtures, tolerance, kindness, the freedom of women and of conscience, and the values of democracy to be signs of decadence. There are storytellers who wish to exploit the “useful idiots” of good conscience and fine sentiments, so as to allow the imposition of Koranic law onto the Western world itself. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/10 "2006-10-01T14:34:27Z")
Thanks. Oh…the 2nd point seems to be way off…did the author expound on this or was this just a bald assertion he made? ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/11 "2006-10-01T15:31:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sevastopol] The precipitating article is pretty inflammatory and provocative. I’d go so far as sacreligious: e.g. This is about as offensive to Islamic sensibility as you can get. There’s more earlier [Found here](http://www.fahayek.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1142&Itemid=45) , it’s the sort of vilification that has been a feature of this board lately and iit’s no wonder some people have become a little tetchy. [/QUOTE] Well, tetchy is fine if you don’t like what someone is saying. On the other hand, putting a hit on someone for what they are saying is the act of a coward and a barbarian. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/12 "2006-10-01T15:37:20Z")
[QUOTE=sleestak] putting a hit on someone for what they are saying is the act of a coward and a barbarian. [/QUOTE] What have you got against barbarians? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/13 "2006-10-01T15:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=Stalky] The European press is losing free speech to a bunch of thugs [/QUOTE] And restrictive “hate speech” laws, let’s not forget. It may be marginally more acceptable to the general public there to have limited free speech. The threats are still wrong, needless to say. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/14 "2006-10-01T16:15:43Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] What have you got against barbarians? [/QUOTE] Interesting question considering the topic. Barbarian - sometimes related to the Barbary Coast region. Islamic conflict goes back to the very beginning of the United States and is represented in the Marine’s song (to the shores of Tripoli). Jefferson was against the payment of ransom for safe passage of US ships and declared war upon his inauguration. Ironically, he ended up buying back enslaved Americans upon the conclusion of the Barbary War. I don’t understand why the irony of violence is not realized by Muslims who disagree with opinions of how violent they are. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/15 "2006-10-01T16:39:02Z")
In 1938 there were many Danes who called for limiting the Danish press free press, on the grounds that we should insult or provocate the Nazi neighbors to the south. And of course after the Nazis came, it was restricted quite considerable. Free speech should never be taken for granted. Before the current threat, it was by the Fascist, Nazis and Communists. And when the Islamists have gone the way of their brothers in Fascism, Nazism and Communism, free speech will be threatened by something else. Every generation must fight for its free speech. We’ve been fairly long waking up to the current threat. Salman Rushdie really should have been the eye opener, but I think at last Europe seem to be waking up to the threat. Still of course, there are many western intellectuals who’re full of excuses, and would rather vilify the writers than try to protect their right and ability to write vile things. Nothing new with that either. We had Nazi and Communist sympathizers in the west while people were being murdered in Germany and Solzhenitsyn was writing from Gulag. There’s a translation here: [http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003001.html](http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003001.html) I don’t know the site and I haven’t read the article. It doesn’t matter what it says. Weather the content was insulting can be discussed after the issue of people being threatened on their life (and their wife’s and children’s) has been resolved. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/16 "2006-10-01T18:13:16Z")
[QUOTE=Rune] Every generation must fight for its free speech. We’ve been fairly long waking up to the current threat. [/QUOTE] Excellent points in that post. I do wonder, though, what need to be done to fight this. Jail the people making the threats (if they can find/catch them)? Make them leave the country? What’s the solution? ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-more-how-dare-you-say-we-re-violent-death-to-you/374819/17 "2006-10-01T19:13:21Z")
I don’t think there is a fast and sure answer though applying the law would certainly be part of that. Allowing ourselves to openly criticize Islam in the same way that we criticize Christianity should also be part of that. Allowing ourselves the freedom to call barbaric customs for what they are should also be part of that.