# Once Upon A Time \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574 "2011-10-23T21:19:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![limegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@limegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/limegreen)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/221 "2011-12-12T18:08:18Z")
The Queen told her Mirror that she had offed the King, and planned to kill Snow, so she definitely wasn’t grieving over him. She even falsely comforted Snow after the King’s death, so apparently they weren’t out and out enemies then. I don’t think we’ve seen the crucial part of what Snow did to the Queen yet. And why on earth does the wolf have one blood-red eye?? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/222 "2011-12-12T18:10:45Z")
I kept hearing them call Graham - Grimm - and was thinking about the possiblity of a crossover… ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/223 "2011-12-12T18:27:01Z")
> [@limegreen](#): > > The Queen told her Mirror that she had offed the King, and planned to kill Snow, so she definitely wasn’t grieving over him. She even falsely comforted Snow after the King’s death, so apparently they weren’t out and out enemies then. The Queen killed her own father, and yet loved him and grieved profoundly for him. I don’t think the fact that she told the Mirror that she’d killed Snow’s father is conclusive evidence that she didn’t love him. She was crying herself when she comforted Snow. Maybe that was acting on her part. Or maybe, as I speculated above, the Queen isn’t as good at being coldly evil as she’d like to believe she is. I think it’s a real mistake to take good and bad at face value or as absolutes in this show. In real life, people aren’t all good or all bad. Even the most coldly ambitious person has the occasional charitable impulse. Even the most kind, loving person has flashes of selfishness or spats of temper. Most people are a thorough mix of both good and bad. This show has already amply demonstrated that its Disneyness is barely skin deep. And while I never watched _Lost_, I gather that it was anything but straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/224 "2011-12-12T23:36:32Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I seem to remember reading that a series regular had to be in at least 13 episodes of a given series, otherwise they were a recurring character and were billed differently in the credits. That at the very least is flat out wrong. I mean what about shows with seasons of less than 13 episodes? Billing, who’s a regular, order, who gets the “and blah blah as so and so” etc, it’s all a very complicated negotiation process, and not something with a one rule fits all. Someone certainly can be a “regular” yet show up less than another actor that’s only “recurring”, it just depends on who negotiated what, and other factors. And just because someone is billed as regular for part of a season, doesn’t mean they have to be billed that way the entire season. When people would come and go on Buffy (Oz, Riley, etc), they would often alter the credits midseason to account for it, and on Charmed they even had a habit of only billing regulars in the episodes they actually appeared in, so you’d have the three lead actresses billed for every ep, but the secondary characters, like the cop friend, he’d only be billed on the eps he appears in. Then you had Michael on Lost, who’s return after being gone a long time was completely telegraphed by his name showing up in the credits several episodes before he actually showed up again. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/225 "2011-12-13T13:58:17Z")
Thanks, **TBG**. As I said, it was dimly remembered from a fairly long time ago, so no surprise if I either remembered wrong, or what I vaguely remembered was not applicable here. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/226 "2011-12-13T21:42:47Z")
Boo to the Queen knowing AND having full(?) access to her magic. Now that they’ve opened that door… less about the drama with Emma makes sense. (or is now part of the mystery I guess) I’m still going with Mr. Gold knowing full well what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/227 "2011-12-14T23:23:14Z")
I’m wondering why all the drama about who knows what. It’s spelled out in the voice-over intro to every episode: > [@](#): > > There is a town in Maine. Where every story book character you’ve ever known is trapped between two worlds. Victims of a powerful curse. **Only one knows the truth and only one can break her spell**. I’m not sure which episode they starting saying that before (all but the pilot?), but it seems pretty clear cut. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/228 "2011-12-15T00:04:22Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > The conversation between Mary Margaret and the sheriff was interesting as they were trying to remember when they met - when they met anyone. Makes **Oy!'s** time proposal the leading candidate for what the producers intended. I want to agree with **Oy!**'s sense of time, but if it is true: is Henry the only child who ages? The only way make Henry fit in the town is if Gold aged the infant Henry with magic, so that Henry has been 10 since he arrived in town 18 years ago. I’m going to agree with **Push You Down** , Regina having access to magic in StoryBrooke is probably going to make the show less interesting. The “residual magic” that allows for the barrier around the town, or for having the curse catch up with Charming I can hand wave, but for Regina to have access to magic is going to be harder for the writers to deal with. Why didn’t she use magic to get Henry out of the mine? Or to modify Emma’s memory and send her away? I was hoping, as the show ended that Emma would start to use CPR on Graham. He might not be dead. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/229 "2011-12-15T00:13:34Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > I’m wondering why all the drama about who knows what. It’s spelled out in the voice-over intro to every episode: > > I’m not sure which episode they starting saying that before (all but the pilot?), but it seems pretty clear cut. It’s called a misdirect–similar to a twist. The narration doesn’t say “Only the queen knows and only Emma can break her spell.” ---
**Author:** ![phall0106](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phall0106/32/5934_2.png) [@phall0106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phall0106)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/230 "2011-12-15T00:31:58Z")
I’m thinking the Mayor doesn’t have nearly the power she did as the Queen in HEAL. I’m also thinking we haven’t seen the last of Graham. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/231 "2011-12-15T01:15:47Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > The narration doesn’t say “Only the queen knows and only Emma can break her spell.” But it does say: Only one knows the truth and only one can break **her** spell. Doesn’t the “her” make it fairly clear? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/232 "2011-12-15T01:23:38Z")
> [@akrako1](#): > > But it does say: Only one knows the truth and only one can break **her** spell. > > Doesn’t the “her” make it fairly clear? only if you assume the one that knows the truth is the one that cast the spell. where was the pellet with the poison? ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/233 "2011-12-15T03:24:22Z")
IIRC, in that _Entertainment Weekly_ article with the writers/producers from last month they said that they didn’t intend for there to be any mystery about whether the Mayor knew the truth or not. It was supposed to be clear from the beginning that she is fully aware of everything. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/234 "2011-12-15T05:00:04Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > IIRC, in that _Entertainment Weekly_ article with the writers/producers from last month they said that they didn’t intend for there to be any mystery about whether the Mayor knew the truth or not. It was supposed to be clear from the beginning that she is fully aware of everything. Much better show, IMHO, when that is atleast a little vague - but I’m well pleased by the series so far, so lets see how it goes. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/235 "2011-12-16T16:51:15Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > IIRC, in that _Entertainment Weekly_ article with the writers/producers from last month they said that they didn’t intend for there to be any mystery about whether the Mayor knew the truth or not. It was supposed to be clear from the beginning that she is fully aware of everything. Then they are for shit writers and producers. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/236 "2011-12-16T17:16:34Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Then they are for shit writers and producers. Actually, I think they are doing a pretty good job so far. I think it’s been obvious for a while that Regina knows everything, and being “spoiled” to that hasn’t diminished my enjoyment of the show at all. Just because the show didn’t come right out and smack you across the face with it (until the most recent episode) doesn’t mean that they haven’t told us before in more subtle ways. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/237 "2011-12-16T17:29:26Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Actually, I think they are doing a pretty good job so far. I think it’s been obvious for a while that Regina knows everything, and being “spoiled” to that hasn’t diminished my enjoyment of the show at all. Just because the show didn’t come right out and smack you across the face with it (until the most recent episode) doesn’t mean that they haven’t told us before in more subtle ways. I think they meant for this episode to be the big reveal that she absolutely knew - but there really was little doubt. I just think it would have been more interesting that she didn’t know - that the curse took her ‘happy ending’ too. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/238 "2011-12-16T17:33:34Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Actually, I think they are doing a pretty good job so far. I think it’s been obvious for a while that Regina knows everything, and being “spoiled” to that hasn’t diminished my enjoyment of the show at all. Just because the show didn’t come right out and smack you across the face with it (until the most recent episode) doesn’t mean that they haven’t told us before in more subtle ways. I think if they never intended a mystery then they are doing a for shit job. It’s been a mystery or at least VAGUE if she knew from the beginning–and honestly a lot of the show doesn’t make sense up to this point if she’s had access to magic the whole time. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/239 "2011-12-16T17:47:00Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I think if they never intended a mystery then they are doing a for shit job. > It’s been a mystery or at least VAGUE if she knew from the beginning–and honestly a lot of the show doesn’t make sense up to this point if she’s had access to magic the whole time. yeah. i’m actually pretty irked at the fact that she knows. giving her magic is just way over the top. compound the fact that she knows, she has magic, knows about a prophesy of snow’s baby undoing it all, and the blatant ways that emma is unraveling the magic just makes all of the queen’s moves completely illogical. really, she’s just awful at her job of being evil. the only way i can see this going on for a second season will involve dimension travelling, time travelling, (more) amnesia, and the arrival of an even bigger bad - rumplestiltskin’s boss probably. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/240 "2011-12-16T18:04:02Z")
Well, I think they’ve shown that Regina actually isn’t so great at being evil anyway. I’d be a bigger fan of her knowing but NOT having access to her magic. It could still have some aspect of that though. She could only have the ability to use things set-up in HEAL but can’t cast new spells etc etc. That just makes the “rules” overly complicated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574.md?page=13)