# Once Upon A Time \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 23, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574 "2011-10-23T21:19:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/481 "2012-03-20T20:37:40Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > T > > - I had a feeling Kathryn was dead. But where’d she _go_, such that Regina obtained her heart? The Queen has already been shown to have a collection of hearts under her family mausoleum. Katherine could’ve easily been Mola Rammed at some point before the curse and like the Huntsman, given a loving squeeze once she outlived her usefulness. ---
**Author:** ![AbbyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@AbbyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbyL)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/482 "2012-03-21T23:45:35Z")
In the last episode, I think david was a little rude to MM. I mean he made her cry and then I swear I started to cry. He knows that she could never have done ANYTHING to hurt Kathryn ---
**Author:** ![AbbyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@AbbyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbyL)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/483 "2012-03-21T23:49:20Z")
I so cannot wait to see the next episode!!! What will the weird guy(mad hatter?) do to Emma? And what was going on with Mary Margaret with rope ion her mouth? Who took her? David, Mr. Gold, August Booth, Regina??? CANT WAIT TO SEE IT!!! ---
**Author:** ![AbbyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@AbbyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbyL)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/484 "2012-03-21T23:53:29Z")
I dont think that Kathryn is really dead… Regina probably did something ot her and maybe is keeping her with belle in that tiny little cell we saw a couple episodes ago ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/485 "2012-03-22T03:48:23Z")
Until the DNA test came back, I was willing to think that Katherine was alive. But unless she’s got an identical twin or 2 hearts like Dr Who, I can’t fanwank away the DNA test. I think David was less than stellar about asking MM about his recovered memory, but cut the guy a little slack. He must have been scared and puzzled over the memory. When the fingerprints came back on the box he said “Arrest me”, I don’t think at that time it could have ever occurred to him MM killed Katherine. The recovered memory shook him badly. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/486 "2012-03-22T14:09:33Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > Until the DNA test came back, I was willing to think that Katherine was alive. But unless she’s got an identical twin or 2 hearts like Dr Who, I can’t fanwank away the DNA test. > > I think David was less than stellar about asking MM about his recovered memory, but cut the guy a little slack. He must have been scared and puzzled over the memory. When the fingerprints came back on the box he said “Arrest me”, I don’t think at that time it could have ever occurred to him MM killed Katherine. The recovered memory shook him badly. Keep in mind Regina has the ability to pull out hearts and keep the person alive. I don’t know if the creation portion works in Storybrooke but the final kill portion certainly does. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/487 "2012-03-22T14:11:22Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > Until the DNA test came back, I was willing to think that Katherine was alive. But unless she’s got an identical twin or 2 hearts like Dr Who, I can’t fanwank away the DNA test. Did she get the DNA test through Regina like she did the phone records? IF so we have no reason to trust them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/488 "2012-03-22T17:08:22Z")
The DNA reports came though some lab in Boston, IIRC. Does Regina’s influence go that far? Another work-around occurs to me: we didn’t see who collected the comparison sample, so if they got an old tissue sample from the hospital, Regina certainly has enough influence there to have used some random sample and remove the heart of any random person. So I guess I’m back in the Kathryn is not dead camp. Certainly the gold knight/soccer coach from school finding her car seems to foreshadow that they’re off in a cabin someplace fulfilling true love’s call. David’s hypnosis session seemed to confirm the 8 minute phone call from him to Kathryn, so perhaps Regina/Sydney didn’t need to fake the phone records, because Regina has already messed with David’s memory. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/489 "2012-03-26T01:21:50Z")
I noticed that they were hyping Roger Daltry’s appearance as the caterpillar. Disappointing that it was only his voiceover he only had one line, but it was clever that the line was “Who are you?” ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/490 "2012-03-26T11:47:35Z")
I chuckled when I realized why the guy was named Jefferson (at the hookah-smoking caterpillar scene), and then I had “White Rabbit” stuck in my head the rest of the night. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/491 "2012-03-26T13:11:54Z")
and I get why he’s the “mad” hatter, after making all those hats… ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/492 "2012-03-26T13:22:04Z")
Interesting that Mr. Gold called the Mayor ‘Your Majesty.’ It suggests that Regina knows that he knows. That certainly had _not_ been indicated earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/493 "2012-03-26T14:22:26Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > Interesting that Mr. Gold called the Mayor ‘Your Majesty.’ It suggests that Regina knows that he knows. That certainly had _not_ been indicated earlier. You may have missed “Skin Deep”, the “Beauty and the Beast” story that served as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold’s backstory (originally aired 12 Feb); in that one Mr. Gold is in Emma’s jail cell; his place had been robbed and something he values greatly had been taken. He’s been arrested because he subsequently attacked the burglar. Regina has the opportunity to speak with him alone, and the following exchange takes place: > [@](#): > > Mr. Gold: Now, when two people both want something the other has, a deal can always be struck. Do you have what I want? > Regina: Yes. > Gold: So. You did put him up to it, then. > Regina: I merely suggested that . . . strong men take what they need. > Gold: Oh yeah, and you told him just exactly what to take, didn’t you? > Regina: We used to know each other so well, Mr. Gold. Has it really come down to this? > Gold: It seems it has, yeah. But you know what I want. What is it you want? > Regina: I want you to answer one question. And answer simply. What’s your name? > Gold: It’s Mr. Gold. > Regina: Your _real_ name. > Gold: Every moment I’ve spent on this earth, that’s been my name. > Regina: But what about moments spent elsewhere? > Gold: What are you asking me? > Regina: I think you know. If you want me to return what’s yours, tell me your name. > Gold: Rumplestiltskin. Now give me what I want. > Regina: Such hostility. > Gold: Oh yeah. > Regina: Over this? (Handing him the item) Such a sentimental little keepsake. > Gold: Thank you. Your Majesty. So . . . now that we’re being honest with each other, let’s remember how things used to be, shall we? And don’t let these bars fool you, dear - I’m the one with the power around here. I’m gonna be out of here in no time, and nothing between us will change. > Regina: We shall see. The scene is quite well-acted by both Carlyle and Parrilla, with each character’s realization of the other’s awareness apparent in their expressions and tone of voice. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/494 "2012-03-26T14:43:46Z")
I think this also puts to bed that ‘how much time has passed’ question - as Jefferson specifically stated that he had been in the house for 28 years and nothing changed until Emma came to town. So, ‘GroundHog’ day syndrome, but like Groundhog day, only a few were aware? ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/495 "2012-03-26T14:55:00Z")
was it explained why Jefferson is aware of so much more than other townfolk? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/496 "2012-03-26T15:01:55Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > was it explained why Jefferson is aware of so much more than other townfolk? It was described as his ‘curse’ - his ‘happily ever after’ would have been to forget like all the others what he had lost - so his curse was to ‘remember’. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/497 "2012-03-26T15:23:53Z")
I’m sure I’m way overthinking it, but…three things: 1. The Hatter’s daughter in the “real world” seemed to be about the same age we saw her when she was in HEAL. Given that we’ve come to understand that the curse froze everyone when it took effect, that would imply the curse occurred relatively soon after the events we saw. Yet the Hatter appeared to have been left in Wonderland a long time, given all the hats we saw. I don’t know – perhaps time moves differently in Wonderland? 2. The Hatter’s daughter seems to have benefitted from the curse. She obviously loved her father in HEAL, so she can’t have been happy that he never came back for her. And, even though we only saw her for a minute in the real world, she seemed to be happy now. The Hatter alludes to that when he explains why he’s never tried to contact her. But doesn’t that go against the whole object of the curse? Do you think the Queen took pity on the daughter? Or is the daughter’s happiness just a means to make the Hatter feel more miserable? 3. The Queen of Hearts’ face was obviously hidden, so much so that I was thinking it was going to be a plot point – that the Queen of Hearts was someone we already knew in the real world. But I can’t think of any major female characters in the real world that we haven’t already seen in HEAL. Any thoughts as to who she might be, or other reasons to keep her face concealed? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/498 "2012-03-26T15:33:44Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I’m sure I’m way overthinking it, but…three things: > > 1. The Hatter’s daughter in the “real world” seemed to be about the same age we saw her when she was in HEAL. Given that we’ve come to understand that the curse froze everyone when it took effect, that would imply the curse occurred relatively soon after the events we saw. Yet the Hatter appeared to have been left in Wonderland a long time, given all the hats we saw. I don’t know – perhaps time moves differently in Wonderland? > > 2. The Hatter’s daughter seems to have benefitted from the curse. She obviously loved her father in HEAL, so she can’t have been happy that he never came back for her. And, even though we only saw her for a minute in the real world, she seemed to be happy now. The Hatter alludes to that when he explains why he’s never tried to contact her. But doesn’t that go against the whole object of the curse? Do you think the Queen took pity on the daughter? Or is the daughter’s happiness just a means to make the Hatter feel more miserable? > > 3. The Queen of Hearts’ face was obviously hidden, so much so that I was thinking it was going to be a plot point – that the Queen of Hearts was someone we already knew in the real world. But I can’t think of any major female characters in the real world that we haven’t already seen in HEAL. Any thoughts as to who she might be, or other reasons to keep her face concealed? on #1 - it was explicitely stated somewhere in teh episode that different rules for different ‘worlds’ - and clearly magic has all kinds of affects. on #2 - I took that to be an afffect of the Queen’s promise to the Jefferson that his daughter ‘would never want for anything’ - while she never intended for Jefferson to return from Wonderland (and appeared to be part of the Queen’s overall ‘issue’ with the world at large), I don’t think she ever intended to not honor her ‘deal’ with him for the daughter’s care. And what better way to curse someone but for the ‘loved one’ to be totally unaware. On #3 - I kept hoping we would see who the QOHs was - I assume we will soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/499 "2012-03-26T16:09:03Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I chuckled when I realized why the guy was named Jefferson (at the hookah-smoking caterpillar scene), and then I had “White Rabbit” stuck in my head the rest of the night. The next time the show goes to Wonderland, the rabbit will be a cameo appearance by Grace Slick. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574/500 "2012-03-26T16:58:57Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > I chuckled when I realized why the guy was named Jefferson (at the hookah-smoking caterpillar scene), and then I had “White Rabbit” stuck in my head the rest of the night. OMG. Thank you. We were trying to figure out why they named him Jefferson. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time-edited-title/600574.md?page=26)