# Once upon a time... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2006, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265 "2006-03-21T09:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/1 "2006-03-21T09:52:16Z")
Why do folktales traditionally start with “Once upon a time?” Wouldn’t just “Once [there was a … whatever]” or “A long time ago” or some other phrase which is actually used in a non-folktale context work just as well? Who coined it? Google gives me nothin’ - just various USES of the phrase ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/2 "2006-03-21T11:01:05Z")
In the South, fairy tales start: “Now, ya’ll ain’t gonna believe this shit…” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/3 "2006-03-22T02:54:53Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > In the South, fairy tales start: “Now, ya’ll ain’t gonna believe this shit…” 🙂 One thing I thought of was that maybe it’s a wierd translation from the Brothers Grimm. Anyone know if “Once upon a time” is any more meaningful in German than English? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/4 "2006-03-22T03:23:39Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > 🙂 > > One thing I thought of was that maybe it’s a wierd translation from the Brothers Grimm. Anyone know if “Once upon a time” is any more meaningful in German than English? Could very well be. From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Once_upon_a_time) > [@](#): > > It is particularly apparent in fairytales for younger children, where it is almost always the opening line of a tale. It was commonly used in the original translations of the stories of Hans Christian Andersen, or the Brothers Grimm. > German: Es war einmal… ‘Once there was…’ And a similar phrase can be found in many of the other languages cited. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/5 "2006-03-22T21:31:33Z")
I think in Spanish they do something like “Erase una vez…” which has no literal meaning I can think of to translate – maybe “there was a time” but I’m not really sure what the reflexive is for in this instance. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/6 "2006-03-22T22:42:37Z")
The French equivalent is \il était une fois…\, which translates quite literally as “There once was…” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/7 "2006-03-22T22:43:29Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > I think in Spanish they do something like “Erase una vez…” which has no literal meaning I can think of to translate – maybe “there was a time” but I’m not really sure what the reflexive is for in this instance. Did you look at the link I gave? > [@](#): > > Spanish: Érase/Había una vez… ‘There was, once…’ ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/8 "2006-03-22T22:48:03Z")
I think you need a way to state the form of the tale. When people got news and history through verbal communication, and when a lot of people believed in ghosts, magic, trolls and so forth, there’s a need for the storyteller to declare that what he or she is about to tell is not actual events that happened once, but it ain’t no bullshit either, so you better listen nonetheless. So, “once upon a time…”, and you got your open minded attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/9 "2006-03-22T22:54:56Z")
> [@Snakescatlady](#): > > In the South, fairy tales start: “Now, ya’ll ain’t gonna believe this shit…” In the Military they start “No shit, there I was…” ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/10 "2006-03-22T22:56:15Z")
or the classic, “we were out drinking one night and…” ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/11 "2006-03-23T00:12:35Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > In the Military they start “No shit, there I was…” …IN the CONgo! ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/once-upon-a-time/349265/12 "2006-03-23T05:12:00Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > I think you need a way to state the form of the tale. When people got news and history through verbal communication, and when a lot of people believed in ghosts, magic, trolls and so forth, there’s a need for the storyteller to declare that what he or she is about to tell is not actual events that happened once, but it ain’t no bullshit either, so you better listen nonetheless. So, “once upon a time…”, and you got your open minded attention. Indeed. The point I’m hung up on, however, is not that folktales need a formalised start - I get that - but why the English version of that formalised start \* is completely nonsensical\*. “Upon a time” - what does that mean? “On top of a chronological period”? Nobody would ever use the phrase “upon a time” in any context outside of a folktale, so how did anyone ever dream it up in _that_ context? I see from **Exapno** ’s useful-looking link though that there’s other languages have it worse than us - check out Classical Arabic, for instance! But most of the different language versions in the wiki cite do, in fact, make complete sense in their own languages. Not ours though…