# One billion billions = one Sagan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663 "2005-01-20T03:31:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/1 "2005-01-20T03:31:55Z")
The title says it all. In high school, I heard that as a tribute to the late Carl Sagan, a group of brainy types decided to name one billion billions a “Sagan”. I’d like to know if this is true, or just a completely adorable UL. Mathematicians, ahoy! ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/2 "2005-01-20T04:42:17Z")
I’m a mathematician, and I haven’t heard of this. One billion billions already has a name: One quintillion. It’s possible a group of people have given the number this name in a light hearted manner, but I’d have to say it’s nothing more than that, and far from any sort of conventional designation. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/3 "2005-01-20T04:55:45Z")
In any case Sagan didn’t say a billion billion or a billiob of billions. He said billions and billions. This would, you’d think, refer to number that was quite a bit smaller. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/4 "2005-01-20T05:00:18Z")
Did Sagan ever actually say, “billions and billions”? Isn’t this phrase the astronomical equivalent of “Play it again, Sam”? ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/5 "2005-01-20T05:00:26Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > In any case Sagan didn’t say a billion billion or a billiob of billions. He said billions and billions. This would, you’d think, refer to number that was quite a bit smaller. Nowhere in the “Cosmos” series did he utter “billions and billions”. ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/6 "2005-01-20T05:03:54Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Nowhere in the “Cosmos” series did he utter “billions and billions”. Cite: [http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxbillio.html](http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxbillio.html) ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/7 "2005-01-20T05:05:07Z")
I can’t put my hand to my copy right now, but I do vividly recall the first four words of Sagan’s last (?) book, _Billions and Billions:_ > [@Carl Sagan](#): > > I never said it. He went on to talk about how the phrase is meaningless and no serious scientist would use it. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/8 "2005-01-20T05:07:31Z")
Damn you, **rfgxjfmkwfz**!!! ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/9 "2005-01-20T06:37:06Z")
If he never said it, where did this meme come from? “Billions and billions” seems like a rather unremarkable phrase to enter the “memosphere” the way it has. Don’t lots of people say that when describing innumerable things like stars? Why do we associate it with Sagan if he never said it? ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/10 "2005-01-20T06:53:01Z")
**Alan Smithee** , according to the link **rfgdxm** posted, the association comes from Johnny Carson’s impression of Sagan. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/11 "2005-01-20T15:44:10Z")
Thanks, **Cabbage**! I don’t always read the links, but I usually try to look at them before asking a question in a thread. This time, obviously, I didn’t. Oddly enough, I _knew_ this came from Johnny, but in my mind, it was from Sagan actually appearing on _The Tonight Show_ and going on about “billions and billions” of stars. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/12 "2005-01-20T19:35:30Z")
> [@Cabbage](#): > > One billion billions already has a name: One quintillion. Actually, it has a bunch of names. In the U.S., a billion is 10[sup]9[/sup], and a billion billion (10[sup]18[/sup]) is called one quintillion. In the U.K., a billion is 10[sup]12[/sup]. A British billion of British billions would be 10[sup]24[/sup], which the Brits would call one quadrillion and the Americans would call one septillion. Just one reason engineers use exponential notation instead of number names most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/13 "2005-01-20T19:44:48Z")
[hijack] I just saw the movie _The Core_ on HBO the other day and thought that Stanley Tucci’s character seemed to be modeled on Carl Sagan. Was I the only one to think that, or did others notice this as well? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/14 "2005-01-20T23:22:54Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > [hijack] > I just saw the movie _The Core_ on HBO the other day and thought that Stanley Tucci’s character seemed to be modeled on Carl Sagan. Was I the only one to think that, or did others notice this as well? > [/hijack] That would be a shame, since it got the lowest rating ever at Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics [http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/](http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/) ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/15 "2005-01-21T00:50:04Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > If he never said it, where did this meme come from? “Billions and billions” seems like a rather unremarkable phrase to enter the “memosphere” the way it has. Don’t lots of people say that when describing innumerable things like stars? Why do we associate it with Sagan if he never said it? Sagan did say “billions” a LOT, with a freaky accent that dragged out the “LL” sound in a funny and memorable way. It’s not so hard to stretch it out until “BILLLLYUHNNS” becomes “BILLLLYUHNNS AND BILLLLYUHNNS” in the public consciousness – I swear I remember him saying it, despite all evidence to the contrary. Or maybe it was on a Saturday Night Live parody. Sure wish Netflix offered [rul=“[http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000055ZOB/104-2907877-2610311](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000055ZOB/104-2907877-2610311)”]the _Cosmos_ DVD set for rental…that would put a definitive end to all speculation. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/16 "2005-01-21T00:51:23Z")
Oh geez, the ONE TIME I decide to skip preview… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/17 "2005-01-21T01:06:06Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Sagan did say “billions” a LOT, with a freaky accent that dragged out the “LL” sound in a funny and memorable way. It’s not so hard to stretch it out until “BILLLLYUHNNS” becomes “BILLLLYUHNNS AND BILLLLYUHNNS” in the public consciousness – I swear I remember him saying it, despite all evidence to the contrary. Or maybe it was on a Saturday Night Live parody.( Sagan **wrote a book** with “Billions and Billions” in the title in 1998: > **[Carl Sagan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan)** > > Carl Edward Sagan (/ˈseɪɡən/; November 9, 1934 – December 20, 1996) was an American astronomer, planetary scientist, cosmologist, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, author, and science communicator. His best known scientific contribution is research on extraterrestrial life, including experimental demonstration of the production of amino acids from basic chemicals by radiation. Sagan assembled the first physical messages sent into space, the Pioneer plaque and the Voyager Golden Record, universal ... The question is who said it first: Sagan of some humorist making fun of him? The answer is the latter. “Billions and billions” could refer to the net worth of Bill Gates, as that is multiple billions of dollars. And I assure you, many people have copies of “Cosmos”, and would have pointed out exactly where Sagan uttered that if he did. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/18 "2005-01-21T06:25:57Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > In the U.S., a billion is 10[sup]9[/sup]…In the U.K., a billion is 10[sup]12[/sup]. I always thought this was kind of dopey on the part of the British. When I think of the -illions, I think of “million” to be “mono”, or one, and “billion” to be “bi”, or two. I can’t fathom how a billion could be interpreted to be a million million, which in effect is saying that two (bi-) is “one squared”. Just doesn’t make sense in any way to me. Speaking of which, I used to know my -illions up to nonillion, but I’m a bit hazy in the middle. Could somebody help me out? Million Billion Trillion Quadrillion Pentillion??? Sextillion??? Septillion??? Octillion Nonillion ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/19 "2005-01-21T11:22:38Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > I always thought this was kind of dopey on the part of the British. When I think of the -illions, I think of “million” to be “mono”, or one, and “billion” to be “bi”, or two. I can’t fathom how a billion could be interpreted to be a million million, which in effect is saying that two (bi-) is “one squared”. Just doesn’t make sense in any way to me. But saying that a billion is a thousand million makes sense? What’s that got to do with “one” and “two”? 😉 And the dopey system is the one used by not only the british, but the rest of Europe, including the French who originated the terms “billion” and “trillion”. (And million, but that was quite a bit further back.) “Original” system: million = 10^6, billion 10^2_6, trillion 10^3_6 There you have your 1,2,3. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663/20 "2005-01-21T15:48:53Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > \ > Nonillion We want \ One NONILLION dollars \. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-billion-billions-one-sagan/285663.md?page=2)