# One Brit's view of the US healthcare debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 23, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110 "2010-04-23T15:43:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/1 "2010-04-23T15:43:43Z")
A Brit? Rapping?! [America, here’s to your health](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLc_iNw-6Gw) Even if you disagree with the politics, I think the lyrics are extraordinarily clever. (And before you say we over here shouldn’t comment on a US issue, this was in response to the distorted and incorrect representation of the NHS during the debates.) ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/2 "2010-04-23T15:50:26Z")
Word. Brit’s in da house reprezentin’. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/3 "2010-04-23T16:38:50Z")
Clearly the British don’t understand American health care. You cannot be refused treatment at a hospital. We don’t screw around in an emergency. In my area, we routinely airlift people from car accidents that are within 3 miles of a hospital. Not only is every hospital equipped with a full array of diagnostic equipment (CT scans, MRI’s etc…) we have outpatient facilities that specialize in this type of equipment to serve general practitioners and specialists. This takes the load off of hospitals and allows doctors to minimize their equipment list to routine machines such as X-rays and EKG’s. The problem has never been health care. The problem has been insurance. It is the exact opposite of the UK where insurance is not the issue but timely diagnosis and care. In the UK these things are measured in months for both diagnosis and care. If I couldn’t get into my GP the same day then I can walk into an at-will facility (we call them Urgent Care). These are walk-in facilities that provide extended GP care until 10 pm. If I can’t get to see the specialist recommended by my GP I just ask for another. There is no reason to wait days or weeks for a specialist because we have a choice of who we see. When it comes to a medical problem such as kidney stones we measure time in days. When it happened to me I went to the emergency room where I received an MRI immediately after the X-rays were found inconclusive. In the space of 2 weeks I saw my GP once to change pain meds and the surgeon 3 times. the 3rd time he gave me a choice of waiting it out further or having the stones removed. I elected to have the stones removed and he scheduled it 2 hrs later. DONE. We don’t wait for hip or knee replacements and a procedure as serious as heart by-pass is measured in hours after diagnosis. All of this medical care has been available to: the insured, the poor, and the elderly. Of the roughly 20 million who could afford insurance but choose not too buy it they will be forced to buy it. The 10 million who can’t get insurance because of pre-existing conditions will get the opportunity to buy insurance and THAT is the true gap in our system. It’s really a question of what kind of care is desired on how much one is willing to pay for it. With a private system there are choices not available with a government run system. As a general rule, Americans want the same care available to Canadian members of Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/4 "2010-04-23T16:58:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is no reason to wait days or weeks for a specialist because we have a choice of who we see. If you have insurance, or can pay the full amount. > [@Magiver](#): > > When it comes to a medical problem such as kidney stones we measure time in days. If you have insurance. > [@Magiver](#): > > We don’t wait for hip or knee replacements If you have insurance. Otherwise there is no wait because you don’t get one. > [@Magiver](#): > > and a procedure as serious as heart by-pass is measured in hours after diagnosis. Not for everyone. > [@Magiver](#): > > As a general rule, Americans want the same care available to Canadian members of Parliament. Which is the exact same care that is available to any Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/5 "2010-04-23T17:01:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Which is the exact same care that is available to any Canadian. Yes, [your money spends just fine in the US.](http://www.reznetnews.org/blogs/mark-trahant/best-health-care-world-if-you-re-canadian-premier-43680) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/6 "2010-04-23T17:07:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, [your money spends just fine in the US.](http://www.reznetnews.org/blogs/mark-trahant/best-health-care-world-if-you-re-canadian-premier-43680) Yes, I knew you’d link to that story. He did what any Canadian is entitled to do - use his money to seek healthcare elsewhere if he so chooses. I can go to India to get a kidney transplant if I feel like it, and I don’t want to wait. He does not have a special entitlement to special healthcare as a premier of a province (as you implied). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/7 "2010-04-23T17:16:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yes, I knew you’d link to that story. > > He did what any Canadian is entitled to do - use his money to seek healthcare elsewhere if he so chooses. I can go to India to get a kidney transplant if I feel like it, and I don’t want to wait. > > He does not have a special entitlement to special healthcare as a premier of a province (as you implied). It implies that your healthcare system sucks. All we have to do is pick up the 3% who can’t get insurance and we’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/8 "2010-04-23T17:20:35Z")
Yes. America really needs to get over it and adopt UHC. In 20 years you’ll be wondering what all the fuss was about. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/9 "2010-04-23T17:22:41Z")
> [@](#): > > You cannot be refused treatment at a hospital. This is a most disingenuous misrepresentation. You cannot be refused if you are on the verge of death. Until then, without insurance, you will be refused repeatedly. When it reaches the point, through lack of treatment, that it might kill you we’ll take you. Often you will be treated, if you have insurance, then the insurer will deny your claim, even though you’ve been paying for coverage all along. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/10 "2010-04-23T17:34:23Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > This is a most disingenuous misrepresentation. > > You cannot be refused if you are on the verge of death. Until then, without insurance, you will be refused repeatedly. When it reaches the point, through lack of treatment, that it might kill you we’ll take you. . Bullshit. You cannot be refused treatment at a hospital. You don’t know what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/11 "2010-04-23T17:38:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It implies that your healthcare system sucks. Williams could have gotten exactly the same treatment in [Ontario](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2514581). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/12 "2010-04-23T17:38:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It implies that your healthcare system sucks. All we have to do is pick up the 3% who can’t get insurance and we’re done. An anecdote of a single person who got a single procedure done out of the country does not imply that “our healthcare system sucks” There is plenty of data out there that gives a coherent analysis of the quality of healthcare in UHC and non-UHC countries. I’m sure you’ve seen it. That you came to that conclusion you did, based on a single case is really quite sad. ETA: You must belong to the **Starving Artist** school of debate and reason. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/13 "2010-04-23T23:02:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > An anecdote of a single person who got a single procedure done out of the country does not imply that “our healthcare system sucks” > > There is plenty of data out there that gives a coherent analysis of the quality of healthcare in UHC and non-UHC countries. I’m sure you’ve seen it. > > That you came to that conclusion you did, based on a single case is really quite sad. > ETA: You must belong to the **Starving Artist** school of debate and reason. Lots of relatives in Canada tell a different story. Your wait times suck. The UK measures it’s wait time in units of months. But as long as your satisfied then we’ll stick with ours and everybody will be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/14 "2010-04-23T23:17:05Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Williams could have gotten exactly the same treatment in [Ontario](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2514581). [Natasha Richardson](http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1578047/natasha_richardsons_autopsy_confirms.html?cat=5) would disagree (if she were alive). Not only did the hospital not have something as basic as an MRI they couldn’t transport her in a timely manner to one that did. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/15 "2010-04-23T23:54:02Z")
Nice moving of the goal posts. Natasha Richardson would disagree that Danny Williams could have gotten his heart surgery in Canada? That doesn’t even make sense. I’m also going to wager that not every hospital in the US has an MRI, especially in backwater areas. I mean, let’s review the facts of that one: She fell and was lucid. Paramedics were called and **turned away** and told they weren’t needed by Richardson. **Hours later** , she complained of a headache and was taken to a hospital in the town, which has a population of 10,000 and is 100 miles away from Montreal. At that point she was then transferred to Montreal by ambulance. Where is the fault of the Canadian system in there? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/16 "2010-04-24T01:44:51Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > Nice moving of the goal posts. Natasha Richardson would disagree that Danny Williams could have gotten his heart surgery in Canada? That doesn’t even make sense. I’m also going to wager that not every hospital in the US has an MRI, especially in backwater areas. > > I mean, let’s review the facts of that one: > She fell and was lucid. Paramedics were called and **turned away** and told they weren’t needed by Richardson. **Hours later** , she complained of a headache and was taken to a hospital in the town, which has a population of 10,000 and is 100 miles away from Montreal. At that point she was then transferred to Montreal by ambulance. Where is the fault of the Canadian system in there? It’s all about getting good care in a timely manner. She would be alive if this happened in the US because MRI’s are everywhere. Danny Williams doesn’t want to wait or wake up dead because an ordinary piece of equipment is backed up with other patients or non-existent. Canadians pay less and get less. That’s fine until your life depends on it. I’m not kidding when I say they airlift people 3 miles from a hospital in my area. The idea that they transported Richardson 50 miles away by ambulance is unbelievably lacking in modern care. The poorest person would have been airlifted in the US to a real hospital without question. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/17 "2010-04-24T02:02:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Lots of relatives in Canada tell a different story. Your wait times suck. The UK measures it’s wait time in units of months. But as long as your satisfied then we’ll stick with ours and everybody will be happy. An anecdote turns into “lots of relatives”. Call back when you have some actual data or facts **Starving Magiver.** Until then you are just blustering in the wind with your obvious bias and complete lack of knowledge. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/18 "2010-04-24T02:43:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > \ > > I’m not kidding when I say they airlift people 3 miles from a hospital in my area. The idea that they transported Richardson 50 miles away by ambulance is unbelievably lacking in modern care. The poorest person would have been airlifted in the US to a real hospital without question. And that, my friends is why Americans pay more for shit outcomes. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/19 "2010-04-24T03:37:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > An anecdote turns into “lots of relatives”. > > Call back when you have some actual data or facts **Starving Magiver.** > > Until then you are just blustering in the wind with your obvious bias and complete lack of knowledge. > > Pathetic. You can find plenty of articles on [health care](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/249938.stm) [rationing](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article3137669.ece). Information on waiting times are also [readily available](http://www.politics.co.uk/news/health/govt-miss-nhs-targets-$483631.htm). 77% of the population waiting 18 weeks or longer for treatment AFTER a doctor’s referral is not medicine, it’s rationing. 18 weeks is the official goal in the UK That’s over 4 months. THAT’S pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110/20 "2010-04-24T04:04:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You can find plenty of articles on [health care](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/249938.stm) [rationing](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article3137669.ece). Information on waiting times are also [readily available](http://www.politics.co.uk/news/health/govt-miss-nhs-targets-$483631.htm). 77% of the population waiting 18 weeks or longer for treatment AFTER a doctor’s referral is not medicine, it’s rationing. 18 weeks is the official goal in the UK That’s over 4 months. > > THAT’S pathetic. You know what’s pathetic? That you can’t read. 77% of patients **met** the target. pdts [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-brits-view-of-the-us-healthcare-debate/537110.md?page=2)