# one divided by none just isn't fucking done **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413 "2011-02-15T04:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/21 "2011-02-15T15:04:46Z")
But what I was going to say is Math depends so much on the teacher. In highschool I didn’t get it. I took summer school. I had tutoring. I was so freaking lost. Five years later I took it and couldn’t figure out what was the part I didn’t understand in highshool. I was working night shifts in a bakery, was turning in empty two litre bottles to get my transit fare, was in crap from my roommates because one case of summer pneumonia meant I couldnt pay my rent on time that month and yet I understood them then. My teacher had actually been a music major in university, who took enough math courses as her options (no papers, no essays, just write the tests) that she ended up with a teachable subject in math. I wonder that made her a better teacher or a different approach, or something. I was just really happy to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/22 "2011-02-15T15:11:05Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I use algebra all the time. I have $80. It’s $10 at the door, $6 a drink, two drink minimum and $25 a lap dance. > > 10+6b+25c=100 > 10+6x2+25c=100 > 22+25c=100 > 25c=78 > > I get three lap dances and have $3 left over! In real life you might get beat up for coming up short when it’s time to pay the last lap dancer. My way of calculating this would be…OK I have $80, after I pay $10 at the door I have $70, after I buy the 2-6 dollar drinks I have $58. That leaves 2 lap dances and 8 bucks for tips and I didn’t need to run any equations. Did you let the equation overrun common sense? I mean, I’m no mathmetician but even I know without having to think on it too much that 3 lap dances at $25 each is $75 and if I only have $80 I can’t afford the cover, the minimum and 3 dances. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/23 "2011-02-15T15:17:29Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I use algebra all the time. I have $80. It’s $10 at the door, $6 a drink, two drink minimum and $25 a lap dance. > > 10+6b+25c=100 > 10+6x2+25c=100 > 22+25c=100 > 25c=78 > > I get three lap dances and have $3 left over! It’s been a long time since I took algebra, but you’re going to be visiting the strip club’s ATM. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/24 "2011-02-15T15:53:21Z")
To build on what the two posters above have said, if you have $80, why are your calculations based on having $100? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/25 "2011-02-15T15:58:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > To build on what the two posters above have said, if you have $80, why are your calculations based on having $100? I got the two drink minimum before posting. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/26 "2011-02-15T16:03:37Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > That leaves 2 lap dances and 8 bucks for tips and I didn’t need to run any equations. Not explicitly, no. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/27 "2011-02-15T16:07:54Z")
Not everyone should study algebra just because a few people might use it. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/28 "2011-02-15T16:13:29Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I got the two drink minimum before posting. 😉 In retrospect, that should have been obvious. I could totally see trying to map out an overcomplicated equation like that with a few drinks in me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/29 "2011-02-15T16:16:44Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Why can’t this stuff be written with passion and personality? Even the sentences seem designed to depersonalize and sterilize what hints to be a beautiful thing. Why would you plaster over marble? > > It would make my decade if just once I read a sentence in my algebra textbook that did not include the word “thus”, but did include the phrase “here’s where it gets really cool”, or even better “I don’t mean to gush about this function but”. The math logic won’t be anymore wrong if you add word play, or even enjoy it, honest. “You’re no doubt wondering why I’ve called you all here. It’s because you all had the motive and opportunity to solve this equation. But only one of you is the correct answer. X is…19!” “I’ll kill you!” “Not likely where you’re going. Take him away officers.” “But how did you know he was the correct answer?” “A little thing I like to call quadratic factorization.” ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/30 "2011-02-15T16:39:40Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Not everyone should study algebra just because a few people might use it. This is true of ever subject, with the possible exception of reading. School is a sampler platter. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/31 "2011-02-15T16:42:55Z")
> [@Heyoka13](#): > > I have marched in a band during football halftime and I have wired a house. I have pumped out flooded basements and assembled and entire roomful of Ikea furniture. I have painted abstract painting in acrylic pigment on glass and been an acolyte at church. I have made iron pyrite in a soup can over a campfire from iron filings and sulfur powder. I have replaced the battery in a Tom Tom GPS, and given my cat a pedicure. > > And I still insist, in **real** life, there ain’t no such thin’ as algebra. > > It is my opinion, and it is very true.😃 The electrical grid that supplies the electricity for that house, the battery you replaced in that Tom Tom, the Tom Tom itself and the GPS system which makes it more than a brick (the launching of the satellites, the design of the satellites, the navigational math) - all of them depend on algebra as well as higher mathematics. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/32 "2011-02-15T17:03:58Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > Not everyone should study algebra just because a few people might use it. Algebra is a language. If you don’t learn the language, then all the subjects that are written in that language are inaccessible to you. Or, algebra is a tool, a way of thinking and of solving problems. If you go through life missing some tools from your mental toolkit, you may never realize what you’re missing, but when you have them available to you, you really appreciate them if the right situation to use them comes along. Or, see here for a defense of algebra, by mathematics writer Keith Devlin: [What Is Algebra Anyway?](http://thirteencelebration.org/blog/edblog/what-is-algebra-anyway/1081/) > [@](#): > > Algebraic thinking is different from arithmetical thinking. Those x’s and y’s that you have to learn to deal with in algebra denote numbers, but usually numbers in general, not particular numbers. And the human brain is not naturally suited to think at that level of abstraction. Doing so requires quite a lot of effort and training. > > Is it worth the effort? You bet. In today’s world, most of us really do need to acquire that skill. In particular, you need to use algebraic thinking if you want to write a macro to calculate the cells in a spreadsheet like Microsoft Excel. This one example alone makes it clear why algebra, and not arithmetic, should now be the main goal of high school math. With a spreadsheet, you don’t need to do the arithmetic; the computer does it, generally much faster and with greater accuracy than any human can. What you, the person, have to do is create that spreadsheet in the first place. The computer can’t do that for you. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/33 "2011-02-15T17:11:33Z")
First part, set boundaries. Your family can, and apparently will, take advantage of you if you don’t. It’s one thing to love your family, but part of loving someone is making them get their act together and learn to take care of themselves. Teach a man to fish and all that. Second part, I never really understood why people feel this way about math. I love math precisely because it is purely logical. Sure, some of the stuff is counter-intuitive, but if you’re not understanding why you’re doing steps, then either your professor is terrible, or you missed something at some point, and it all just kept building on that misunderstanding. My suggestion is to try to figure out what the most recent things are that you fully understand and try to build back up from there. I think that a lot of people find real life examples useful too. Not the silly examples like “a train leaves Chicago headed due south at 60 MPH…” crap because no one uses math for that sort of stuff. Instead, I remember learning a lot of algebra problems from things like figuring out how much paint to buy, how much fencing material to buy. I loved calculus in high school even more because I was studying physics at the same time, so I had all of the examples I needed right there. I do also have to disagree with anyone who says they don’t use algebra in everyday life. It’s not necessarily obvious that you use it, but you do use a lot of the concepts. Moreso, I specifically find I use calculus and statistics often, and neither of those is possible without a solid understanding of algebra. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/34 "2011-02-15T17:14:10Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Second part, I never really understood why people feel this way about math. I love math precisely because it is purely logical. Sure, some of the stuff is counter-intuitive, but if you’re not understanding why you’re doing steps, then either your professor is terrible, or you missed something at some point, and it all just kept building on that misunderstanding. Or you didn’t ask questions. Or you didn’t ask the right questions. Or you didn’t ask the right questions of the right people. (i.e., your professor sucks.) ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/35 "2011-02-15T17:31:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > “You’re no doubt wondering why I’ve called you all here. It’s because you all had the motive and opportunity to solve this equation. But only one of you is the correct answer. X is…19!” > “I’ll kill you!” > “Not likely where you’re going. Take him away officers.” > “But how did you know he was the correct answer?” > “A little thing I like to call quadratic factorization.” I like it! > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Algebra is a language. If you don’t learn the language, then all the subjects that are written in that language are inaccessible to you. > > Or, algebra is a tool, a way of thinking and of solving problems. If you go through life missing some tools from your mental toolkit, you may never realize what you’re missing, but when you have them available to you, you really appreciate them if the right situation to use them comes along. > > Or, see here for a defense of algebra, by mathematics writer Keith Devlin: [What Is Algebra Anyway?](http://thirteencelebration.org/blog/edblog/what-is-algebra-anyway/1081/) I was going to post one of the busier equations that comes up for drug dosaging, but when I wrote it out, I realized that the algebraic equation is not that bad, the trickier part is converting the word problem to a numbers problem, and I credit chemistry with giving me that skill. Still, without algebra I wouldn’t have gotten through chemistry, without both I wouldn’t have gotten through pharmacology. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/36 "2011-02-15T17:39:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My high school calculus teacher was fond of saying, “My students never fail calculus. (pause) They fail algebra first.” I didn’t fail algebra at all. In fact, I used it to calculate the length of wiring I would need to tap into the high school public address system, so I could commandeer it. And where did I install the wiring? On the roof of the math building. So, yes, algebra is useful in real life, but only for limited purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/37 "2011-02-15T17:44:18Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > The electrical grid that supplies the electricity for that house, the battery you replaced in that Tom Tom, the Tom Tom itself and the GPS system which makes it more than a brick (the launching of the satellites, the design of the satellites, the navigational math) - all of them depend on algebra as well as higher mathematics. You know, you’re illustrating one of today’s big challenges for the Western world: Lack of interest in math, natural science and technology among youngsters today. They want to be pop singers, star in reality shows, or work as manicurists or color consultants. They take technology - like their mobile phones, their GPS receivers, safe airplanes or the 'net - for granted. Nobody needs to learn those things, they’re just a part of life. Therefore, there “is no” algebra, or calculus, or other math, in “real life”. In the meantime, young Indians and Chinese study engineering and India and China will beat the West in the technology race we’re still in. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/38 "2011-02-15T17:45:34Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > This statement holds true if, and only if, engineers don’t have a real life when they’re working. Because algebra is a rather important tool in engineering calculations It was kind of you to add that “when they’re working” qualifier, but I’m not entirely sure it was needed. 😛 > [@Heyoka13](#): > > I have worked in industrial testing laboratories, done paperwork on Space Shuttles and stealth bombers, I have installed home theater systems, and done delivery work for a radio station. I have farmed soybeans and driven a big diesel truck. I have gelded hogs and marched in civil rights demonstrations. I have worked pro bono for the ACLU, and restored graves for Mormon pioneers. Ever figure out how any more units you could test in the two hours you had left in your shift? Algebra. Estimate lengths of cabling needed based on wall runs and heights? Algebra. Ever guessed how much farther your big diesel truck could go with the quarter tank you had left? Algebra. Ever… um, I dunno… counted the number of testicles you had at the end of the day to make sure you got all the hogs you were supposed to? You guessed it. Like **Ace309** said - you might not explicitly set up equations and then solve them. but those calculations are all based on algebra. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/39 "2011-02-15T17:45:47Z")
A favorite recent XKCD on math : > **[Complex Conjugate](https://xkcd.com/849/)** > > Fun fact: if you say this every time a professor does something to a complex-number equation that drops the imaginary part, they'll eventually move the class to another room and tell everyone else except you. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413/40 "2011-02-15T17:51:37Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > In real life you might get beat up for coming up short when it’s time to pay the last lap dancer. > > My way of calculating this would be…OK I have $80, after I pay $10 at the door I have $70, after I buy the 2-6 dollar drinks I have $58. > > That leaves 2 lap dances and 8 bucks for tips and I didn’t need to run any equations. > > Did you let the equation overrun common sense? I mean, I’m no mathmetician but even I know without having to think on it too much that 3 lap dances at $25 each is $75 and if I only have $80 I can’t afford the cover, the minimum and 3 dances. That thing you just did there, that’s called “algebra.” Talking through it, in common language, is the way algebra was done from 2000 BC up through about 1600 AD. Personally, I think it should be taught that way. Students should have one or two semesters experience in solving linear and quadratic problems before they are even introduced to literal notation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-divided-by-none-just-isnt-fucking-done/571413.md?page=3)