# One doozie of a Catch-22 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 30, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095 "2003-04-30T06:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pHabala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a87d85/32.png) [@pHabala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pHabala)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/1 "2003-04-30T06:40:49Z")
Re: [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcatch22.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcatch22.html) I think I have another nice example of Catch-22 for Dex. In central Europe, if you want to get a driver’s licence, you go to the office, pass a written test, then hop into a car _supplied by the office_ and go for a driving test with an instructor. Now in the USA, the DL offices I’ve encountered do not supply cars. And here’s the catch: How can you get a driver’s licence in the US, if you just arrived, have no friends, have do drivers licence,but you are supposed to bring your own car in for the test? Never figured this one out, I mean how to do it legally and without too much hassle. In my case, I rented a car based on a learner’s DL (which you get for passing the written test, fortunately the rental-car office people just glanced at it) and drove it to the office without a valid DL :-). pH. ---
**Author:** ![fgarriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c6cbf5/32.png) [@fgarriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fgarriel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/2 "2003-04-30T11:56:59Z")
It all depends on the state, but when I got my license in New Jersey, it was even more strict. The car’s brake pedal (or emergency brake) had to be accessible from the passenger side of the car. In most states, you can buy a car without having a driver’s license. Without a license, you may have trouble registering or insuring it though, which would bring you back to step 1. ---
**Author:** ![Marsupial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Marsupial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marsupial)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/3 "2003-04-30T14:21:26Z")
Here’s one I experienced shortly after moving to Austin, Texas. This Catch-22 sort of involved a triple-paradox. Apparently, you can’t get a driver’s license in the state of Texas without insurance (if you own a car). However, you can’t get insurance unless you’ve registered your car. And finally, (here’s the kicker!) you can’t get your car registered without a Texas driver’s license! The only way I could figure a way out of this quandry was to lie to the people at the DMV and say that I didn’t own a car. Then they were allowed to give me a license without proof of insurance. Good thing they didn’t ask me how the heck I got to the DMV in the first place! –Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/4 "2003-04-30T16:22:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Now in the USA, the DL offices I’ve encountered do not supply cars. And here’s the catch: How can you get a driver’s licence in the US, if you just arrived, have no friends, have do drivers licence,but you are supposed to bring your own car in for the test? Somebody else drives you to the test. It’s not much of a Catch-22 when the answer is that simple. 😛 If NOBODY at all can help, I guess you take a cab or walk to the test site. ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/5 "2003-04-30T19:30:07Z")
I didn’t even have to take a driving test in order to get my license, though I did have to bring written proof that I had attended a driving school. The school provided a car. ---
**Author:** ![bradministrator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bradministrator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradministrator)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/6 "2003-05-01T04:28:28Z")
I rode my motorcycle to the DMV to take my motorcycle license test. **You’ll never take me alive, copper!** ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/7 "2003-05-01T04:40:28Z")
**Marley23** , you missed the point. The driving test does not provide the vehicle. You know nobody, don’t own a car, and don’t have anyone you can ask to borrow their car. “Excuse me, Mr. Complete Stranger, may I borrow your car so I can take a driving test to get my driver’s license?” You take a cab to the test, and then what? “Mr. Tester, hi, this is my imaginary car. Let’s walk around the block and I’ll tell you what I’m doing. No?” “Hey Mr. Cabbie, mind if I take your hack around the block? No dents, I promise.” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/8 "2003-05-01T12:49:38Z")
Since the Catch-22 report being cited is, in fact, a Staff Report rather than one of Cecil’s columns, I’ll move this to the appropriate forum. (No big deal, just makes it easier for folks looking for it later.) And welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, **pHabala** , glad to have you with us. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/9 "2003-05-01T15:37:46Z")
I’ve never patronized a driving school, nor do I have access to a telephone right now so that I can call and research the definitive answer, but I presume that the operators of some driving schools likely have a means of accommodating their students’ needs for a vehicle in which to take the driving test. I do not presume that this solution is particularly inexpensive for the candidate, nor do I presume that just _anybody_ can walk into a driving school and check out a car for the test. Were I the owner/operator of such a school, my “loaner” program would be set up iin a way that would require the candidate to provide proof that he (or she) had successfully completed training with my school, some time within the past six weeks. Any driving school experts out there who can flesh this out? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/10 "2003-05-01T15:40:07Z")
Ouch. I passed right over **Loopus’s** answer. Sorry about that, **Loopus**. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/11 "2003-05-01T20:44:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pHabala \* > **Never figured this one out, I mean how to do it legally and without too much hassle. In my case, I rented a car based on a learner’s DL (which you get for passing the written test, fortunately the rental-car office people just glanced at it) and drove it to the office without a valid DL :-).** I think you just answered your own question there. Get a learner’s permit first then find a car to use for the road test. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/12 "2003-05-01T21:16:24Z")
The fact that one can find ways to wriggle out of this particular example of Catch-22 doesn’t negate the example: in order to get a license, you need to drive to the testing spot, which is (basically) illegal. Remember, please, that the purpose of this thread is NOT to find ways around that particular version of the Catch, but just to note that there are several examples in common situations. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/13 "2003-05-02T05:17:06Z")
**Jeff** , technically with a learner’s permit you still have to have a qualified adult as a front seat passenger (i.e. valid driver’s license). Driving yourself to the test without a sponsor is illegal. Just because some people pull it off does not make it proper. In fact, it was specifically counseled against when I took my test. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/14 "2003-05-02T16:02:55Z")
Well, yeah, the best way would be to make friends with someone and use their car. I had a learner’s permit for four years because I didn’t have a car to use nor could I find someone to ride with me. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mike\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_H)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/15 "2003-05-05T15:59:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kaylasdad99 \* > \*\*I’ve never patronized a driving school, nor do I have access to a telephone right now so that I can call and research the definitive answer, but I presume that the operators of some driving schools likely have a means of accommodating their students’ needs for a vehicle in which to take the driving test. > > I do not presume that this solution is particularly inexpensive for the candidate, nor do I presume that just _anybody_ can walk into a driving school and check out a car for the test. Were I the owner/operator of such a school, my “loaner” program would be set up iin a way that would require the candidate to provide proof that he (or she) had successfully completed training with my school, some time within the past six weeks. > > Any driving school experts out there who can flesh this out? \*\* That’s how I got my license. My P’s didn’t own a car (still don’t), and didn’t have any friends with a car. I went to driving school for once a week for about 3 months (after getting a learner’s permit, which the instructor drove me to the DMV to get). Once the instructor and I felt I was ready, I went to take the test using the driving school’s car (twice; I failed the test on my first attempt ☹ ) . No, this method is not cheap; all told the lessons were over a $1000, but I was starting from scratch learning to drive. You could go to a school and claim you need one or two “touch up lessons” and to take the driving test. The lessons back then (1994) were about $150 each (taking the driving exam counted as a “lesson”). Still not very cheap I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/16 "2003-05-06T18:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pHabala \* > \*\*Re: > Now in the USA, the DL offices I’ve encountered do not supply cars. And here’s the catch: How can you get a driver’s licence in the US, if you just arrived, have no friends, have do drivers licence,but you are supposed to bring your own car in for the test? > \*\* In the USA, the vast majority of people who get their first license do so as children (ages 16-18). Their mommy or daddy brings them down and they use the family car. Not a Catch-22 at all. There is no legal requirement that one OWN the car being used. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/17 "2003-05-06T20:46:43Z")
The trick is to say that your mom dropped off the car and went for a walk… That is what my uncle did when he had to reapply for his drivers after a 5 year suspension for being a stupid moron. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/18 "2003-05-08T19:37:34Z")
**Dogface** , just because the vast majority do so does not preclude it from being a catch-22 for the minority. Again, the point was he had no access to any car, not just that he didn’t own a car. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/19 "2003-05-16T05:17:14Z")
Golly, I guess this explains why no-one in the US has a driver’s license! Can’t be much of a catch-22 if millions of people figure a way around it every year and no-one doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![UselessGit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/74df32/32.png) [@UselessGit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UselessGit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095/20 "2003-05-16T17:00:55Z")
3rd world countries and their driving tests…gotta love it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-doozie-of-a-catch-22/172095.md?page=2)