# One good reason why you should Tip ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 13, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503 "2011-10-13T04:49:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/101 "2011-10-14T18:31:30Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > It’s not a strawman. It’s a real argument I’ve heard many times, and even here on The SD. It’s almost impossible for me to search for people’s quotes that essentially said the same thing, because people use different words to describe the same effect. > > But here’s something: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369009&highlight=Tipping](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=369009&highlight=Tipping) That quote doesn’t say anything like what you’re claiming you’ve heard from other people. Still a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/102 "2011-10-14T19:32:10Z")
I once worked at a place where the wait staff got paid less (about half minimum wage at the time) because we were tipped employees. However the kitchen, the bussers, the host/hostess, and I think even the bartenders were paid more–not much, but minimum wage–and yet every night the wait staff had to contribute a certain percentage to tip out these people, too. (Also, our tips were supposed to be pooled.) Now on any given night I probably ended up with more $$ than, say, the hostess. I had a few really good nights, in fact. But it kind of bugged me because, while I might have the occasional really good night, I would also have the occasional really bad night, and on that night 10% of my tips would still go to the rest of the nontipped staff, who had a guaranteed wage much higher than mine. A friend who works as a bartender for a caterer gets a set amount per hour, and it’s about twice minimum wage–but she still gets tips. Really good tips. People don’t have to tip her, but they almost always do. Forgive me for thinking bartending is the best job ever. The thing I hate about tipping is that, as prices go up, _so does the percentage you are “supposed” to tip._ Really? The same percentage of a higher price for the meal isn’t good enough for you? It’s getting ridiculous. Yeah, I see myself becoming an “off my lawn!”-type curmudgeon. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/103 "2011-10-14T19:51:25Z")
> [@studmuffin](#): > > I don’t eat out, so I have little experience of restaurant tipping. > > My main gripe was Taxi drivers and Bar staff, low paid losers who demand that we subsidise their inability to get better paid jobs. If you don’t want to tip the bartender - don’t go to the bar. If you think the the bartender is a loser, maybe find a different place to guzzle your booze I know this is great debates, so I need to tread lightly here. But were you beat up by a bartender or something? What’s with all the outrage? I’ve known alot of bartenders - both inside the bar and out. Every one of them are personable guys. FWIW, I’m a former bartender. Did it for extra money while I was in the USAF and continued to do it while going to college. And guess what - that bartending job was instrumental in my ability to get my engineering degree and a better paying job. I would get all pissed off that you are essentially calling me a loser, but you’re just not worth the outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/104 "2011-10-14T19:54:39Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > The thing I hate about tipping is that, as prices go up, _so does the percentage you are “supposed” to tip._ Really? The same percentage of a higher price for the meal isn’t good enough for you? It’s getting ridiculous. Where have you heard of this custom? I tip between 15%-20% regardless of the price of the meal, and eat at a wide range of priced restaurants, from $8 entrees to $75 entrees. The % of tip does not change in my book. And if I’m ordering to take home, I will normally only tip 10%. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/105 "2011-10-14T20:58:32Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > This one’s easy: > > Fast food is generally self-service: you fill and re-fill your own drinks, fetch your own condiments, seat yourself, clean up after your meal and discard your trash. > … > Someone brings hot food prepared to my specifications and cold drinks with ingredients I did not have to shop for or cook. They keep my drink topped off, fetch any condiments or extras I might request, package up my leftovers, then clean the dishes, napkins, tablecoths… and generally treat me and my guests like royalty. Of course what you’ve done here is compare fast food staff to waiters. I said _bar staff_. I don’t see why inherently it makes sense to tip a guy who hands me a beer when it’s not the done thing at all to tip someone who serves you at the counter of a fast food restaurant. Other than “the prices / wages are set based on that expectation”. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/106 "2011-10-14T21:18:09Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > I got paid the rough equivalent of $7.00 an hour working in a hellishly busy bar, serving several customers at once, most of whom were angry and impatient, mixing cocktails, cleaning up sick and broken glass, all the while maintaining a friendly and approachable demeanour. > [@](#): > > While bartending is, on the whole, a difficult and tiring job, it’s not _that_ difficult, or _that_ tiring, and it’s really no harder than any other minimum wage occupation. The above statements don’t seem like they’d come from the same person. You describe your job as being pretty damn tiring working in a _hellishly busy bar_ and it sounds a lot rougher than minimum wage jobs I see others perform. Plenty of young people here in the U.S. standing around stores like The Gap greeting customers and re-folding sweaters at a leisurely place, reading the newspaper at the front desk of gyms, etc. ---
**Author:** ![studmuffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@studmuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/studmuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/107 "2011-10-15T00:09:18Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Where have you heard of this custom? I tip between 15%-20% regardless of the price of the meal, and eat at a wide range of priced restaurants, from $8 entrees to $75 entrees. The % of tip does not change in my book. > > And if I’m ordering to take home, I will normally only tip 10%. So, do you 15% tip the guy who changes your oil at Super-dooperlube, or give 5 bucks to the check-out girl at Wallymart, why single out the guy who carries food to your table, and says " enjoy your meal " ? ---
**Author:** ![campp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/108 "2011-10-15T00:39:42Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Move to [pretty much every country in the world apart from the US - (is tipping bartenders in Canada de regeur too?)]. You don’t have to tip: just get your drink and relax. Though usually when there’s table service you tip. Don’t ask why. In particular you could move to Japan, where tipping is hardly even understood or even considered rude in some cases. Can anyone explain why tipping is considered _rude_ in Japan? The mind boggles… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/109 "2011-10-15T01:26:42Z")
> [@studmuffin](#): > > So, do you 15% tip the guy who changes your oil at Super-dooperlube, or give 5 bucks to the check-out girl at Wallymart, why single out the guy who carries food to your table, and says " enjoy your meal " ? Because HE’S PAID DIFFERENTLY. What part of this don’t you understand? It had been explained multiple times in this thread. I’ll repeat it for you. A waiter or bartender in the US gets paid LESS than elsewhere. Unlike other countries, the cost of employing service isn’t factored into the bill. Instead if paying higher prices which pay the server’s higher wages, the customer gets the OPTION to pay the standard amount by adding the 15% or - unlike elsewhere - has the rarely used but available option to have the server NOT BE PAID by not paying a tip. They are NOT getting more than you. They merely have the possibility of customers choosing to reduce their wage packet if service is bad. Otherwise they take their lower wages plus tips and make about thf same as you. Your situation is better. You get the tip regardless, every time. It’s included in the price and makes your wage packet. The US servers gave to earn that wage packet you take for granted because the job’s pay in itself is shit. Why is this difficult for you? Ate you imagining that random US bartenders are residing in luxury mansions or something? They earn the same as you do. They have to work for every penny and practically fellate every customer; you don’t. Lucky you. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/110 "2011-10-15T01:29:50Z")
Apologies for the many phone typing related errors in the above post! You’ve no idea how many attempts it took just to write the word “apologies” despite iPhone’s helpful auto correct! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/111 "2011-10-15T01:31:21Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Apologies for the many phone typing related errors in the above post! You’ve no idea how many attempts it took just to write the word “apologies” despite iPhone’s helpful auto correct! At least you know how many spaces to put before and after commas… ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/112 "2011-10-15T01:58:07Z")
> [@Some\_Schmo](#): > > I love that people are trying to intellectually justify their cheapness (to themselves, if nobody else). Good stuff. I agree, tipping allows people to be cheap and stiff their server. If the true cost was built in to the actual prices, they couldn’t get away with being a cheap-ass. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/113 "2011-10-15T02:13:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I think you’re under some misapprehension as to how many bartenders are rolling in tip money. There’s a reason I have no plans to quit my job to tend bar. I hope I am. I’d be genuinely interested to learn how much money a busy nightclub barman in America would take home in an average week. I only bartend part time at the moment, but when it used to be my only source of income, I would take home around about $370.00 dollars per week net, and I’d work about 50 hours a week. How does this compare with an American barman? Keep in mind that I had to do as much unpleasant ‘behind-the-scenes’ maintenance work as any American barman. I cleaned up sick and broken glass, broke up fights, kept the bar clean, worked the cellar, the whole lot. > [@x-ray vision](#): > > The above statements don’t seem like they’d come from the same person. You describe your job as being pretty damn tiring working in a hellishly busy bar and it sounds a lot rougher than minimum wage jobs I see others perform. Plenty of young people here in the U.S. standing around stores like The Gap greeting customers and re-folding sweaters at a leisurely place, reading the newspaper at the front desk of gyms, etc. I’ve had a lot of minimum wage jobs in my time, and in terms of difficulty and stress bartending doesn’t rate in the top 3. The worst job I ever had was working in a fish and chip shop. It was unbearably hot, frequently jam-packed with customers, I kept burning myself on the deep fat fryer, came home stinking of cheap cooking oil every day, and earned an absolute pittance. Bartending is hard, no doubt, but it’s not _that_ hard. > [@Candyman74](#): > > And said American barstaff find it baffling and irritating that you get paid a higher wage than they do and don’t have to appease people to earn the tips to get paid the same as you. Basically, you just get the optional tip addition automatically added onto the prices by your boss and then given to you as part of your wage packet. They get a smaller wage packet, because the service bit isn’t compulsory. They shouldn’t do. After taking tips into account they get paid a hell of a lot more than me. Let’s do a quick back of the envelope calculation, and work out how much money I _would_ make, if I were an American barman, working in the same sort of place I bartend at the moment. On an average eight hour Friday night shift I will serve round about 200 rounds of drinks, give or take. I couldn’t possibly put a figure on the total number of beers I’ll pour, or cocktails and shooters I’ll make, but I’d be surprised if it were less than five hundred. For this, I will get paid £36.48 net, or $57.52. If I’m lucky, I’ll get an extra £5.00 ($7.88) in tips for the entire night. I usually don’t get that. Now let’s imagine I’m an American barman. I’ll get $17.04 in basic wages (£10.08) according to the $2.13 hourly rate quoted by **Joey P** earlier in the thread. Now, let’s assume that a mere 10% of the 200 or so customers tip me a dollar a drink. Since, based on comments in this thread (among others) tipping a dollar a drink appears to be customary in America, I’m confident the percentage wouldn’t actually be this low, but let’s go with it for the time being. Let’s also assume that each of these 20 people buy, say, 2 drinks each. I would expect the actual number to be higher than that in real life, but I’m trying to be conservative. That’s an extra $40.00, or £25.37. By this point, they’re _already_ earning as much as me. Now, let’s assume that, say, 40% of the remaining patrons tip the barman a single dollar for their entire round, regardless of how many drinks the barman makes each of them. That’s an extra $80.00, or £50.74. Let’s also assume that fully _half_ of the patrons choose to stiff the bartender completely, and tip him absolutely nothing at all. Take off 20% tax from the tips, and that means that while I will have earned $57.52, my American counterpart would have earned $109.64, for exactly the same work. And it _is_ exactly the same work. We English bartenders don’t get to mouth off to the clientele just because we don’t get tips. We have to be as appeasing and obsequious as any American bartender _just to keep our jobs_. Of course, my assumptions are ridiculously conservative. American bartenders don’t get stiffed by half their customers. If American bartenders are genuinely annoyed at the fact that bartenders elsewhere get a higher basic salary in exchange for virtually no tips, then they need to check their maths. An Englishman hoping to live comfortably off bar work alone would need to put in a good 80 hours a week. I’d wager that an American bartender working in the same sort of environment as me wouldn’t need to put in anywhere near as many. Frankly, when considering their international counterparts, I doubt American bar staff have time to do anything except laugh at the poor suckers like me who don’t have the opportunity to work for tips. As I said to **RickJay** , this is all sour grapes on my part, of course. If American bartenders have found a grift in the system, they should exploit it as much as they can. They’d be foolish if they didn’t. And if American consumers are happy to fork over ten dollars to some stranger for flipping the lids off ten bottles of Bud…well, it’s their money. But in no way are these tips actually _deserved_. It’s an odd little custom that happens to be inordinately beneficial to a small segment of American minimum wage workers. Nothing more. Compared to bartenders everywhere else, as well as a lot of American minimum wage workers in other sectors (such as fast food) American bartenders have it ridiculously good. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/114 "2011-10-15T02:28:54Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > Now let’s imagine I’m an American barman. I’ll get $17.04 in basic wages (£10.08) according to the $2.13 hourly rate quoted by **Joey P** earlier in the thread. … Take off 20% tax from the tips, and that means that while I will have earned $57.52, my American counterpart would have earned $109.64, for exactly the same work. > > And it _is_ exactly the same work. Yeah, and when that bartender in the US works Wednesday morning in the US (the 10 to 4 shift at the place I frequent), they’ll make $12.78 in wage and maybe $10 or $20 in tips (people usually sit at the table during lunch, and not the bar). And weekday mornings occur a lot more than weekend nights… eta: and they have to pay $4 for parking, so a whole day’s work for like 22 bucks, not counting gas. They better make it up on Friday. Unless they don’t get scheduled for that shift. Maybe next week will be better. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/115 "2011-10-15T03:09:04Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Where have you heard of this custom? I tip between 15%-20% regardless of the price of the meal, and eat at a wide range of priced restaurants, from $8 entrees to $75 entrees. The % of tip does not change in my book. > > And if I’m ordering to take home, I will normally only tip 10%. I meant prices in general, not prices at an expensive vs. a less expensive restaurant. For instance the tip rate used to be 10%. Priced went up and now, as you see, the rate is 15 to 20%. The place I worked used to tack on 10% for parties of eight or more, and now their rate is 18% (and the meal costs twice as much as it did, too). ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/116 "2011-10-15T04:28:22Z")
When a British bartender needs a kidney operation, they go to the hospital. When an American bartender needs one, mostly they go and beg friends and family to help pay for it so they don’t end up in the morgue. The grass isn’t always greener. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/117 "2011-10-15T05:08:09Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > I meant prices in general, not prices at an expensive vs. a less expensive restaurant. For instance the tip rate used to be 10%. Priced went up and now, as you see, the rate is 15 to 20%. The place I worked used to tack on 10% for parties of eight or more, and now their rate is 18% (and the meal costs twice as much as it did, too). Well a Coca-Cola used to cost $0.25 a bottle, but they’re now $1.00 or more a can. And people used to make $2.00 and hour. Have you not heard about a this thing called inflation? ---
**Author:** ![studmuffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@studmuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/studmuffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/118 "2011-10-15T05:24:30Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > When a British bartender needs a kidney operation, they go to the hospital. When an American bartender needs one, mostly they go and beg friends and family to help pay for it so they don’t end up in the morgue. The grass isn’t always greener. That’s a whole other thread. One thing at a time We’ll get this tipping nonsense sorted out then I’ll persuade you yankee doodles that a tax funded Public Health Service is the only way forward for a civilised democracy. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/119 "2011-10-15T06:22:40Z")
When in Rome… It’s what we do in the states. It’s part of the culture - kind of like saying please, thank you, excuse me, freedom of speech, public education, and a weird affection for reality tv. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503/120 "2011-10-15T06:29:03Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Well a Coca-Cola used to cost $0.25 a bottle, but they’re now $1.00 or more a can. And people used to make $2.00 and hour. Have you not heard about a this thing called inflation? But the prices of your meal (and minimum wage) go up with inflation as well. So the rate of tipping has presumably exceeded inflation in some areas. And quite frankly, some of us can’t afford to tip someone 20 per cent. Bars are the worst - a $1 tip for a $5 drink? I’m generous if I can afford to be and I ALWAYS tip, but [this guide](http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2006/10/12/basic-tips-on-tipping-how-much-and-to-whom/) to tipping made me think wtf. > [@](#): > > Bartender > $1/drink (or 15% of total bill). Pre-tip for better service. Pre-tip at a bar for better service? Wow. I thought I was tipping you on your service, not bribing you to not water my drink down. But waitstaff at restaurants are typically expecting 10-20 per cent + (sometimes gratuity is added on the bill for parties). Food is already expensive at restaurants, and not many kinds of restaurants require ‘exceptional’ service (I mean, I order, you bring me my food, refill my drink. It’s not easy work, but it’s standard.) > [@](#): > > Waiter > 15% for adequate service, 20% for exceptional service. For poor service, leave 10% or less. It’s okay to leave nothing for exceptionally poor service, but only if you’re sure it’s the waiter’s fault. If I spend $22 on a meal for typical American fare and I leave you $5, that is really generous of me. Or maybe I’m cheap and I don’t know it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-good-reason-why-you-should-tip/599503.md?page=7)