# One Hand Clap **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [March 12, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732 "2003-03-12T03:41:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Necromantix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/aeb1de/32.png) [@Necromantix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necromantix)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/1 "2003-03-12T03:41:53Z")
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_049](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_049) I dunno if anyone else has posted this, but here goes. Sound of one hand clap Is not so hard to figure Fap fap fap fap fap Oh, by the way, the Haiku in the article isn’t a haiku. It’s only 16 syllables, not 17. ---
**Author:** ![mok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mok)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/2 "2003-03-12T04:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Necromantix \* > \*\* > > Oh, by the way, the Haiku in the article isn’t a haiku. It’s only 16 syllables, not 17. \*\* What haiku? 😕 Do you mean the translated **quote** from Zen Master **Hakuin**? Or would it be best if just say “ **Mu** ”…? -mok ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/3 "2003-03-12T23:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, by the way, the Haiku in the article isn’t a haiku. It’s only 16 syllables, not 17. A common misconception, but there is no requirement at all on the number of syllables in a haiku. A haiku is defined based on the subject matter, not on the technical form. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/4 "2003-03-13T00:14:23Z")
Not so. Technically, the Haiku is indeed defined by the subject matter (it should have some kind of reference to one of the seasons). But that is its definition with respect to the Hokku, of which it is a kind. And a Hokku is a verse of three lines of 5, 7, and 5 syllables (_not_ simply 17 syllables). English hates Haiku; syllables, like April ice, melt and flow away. ---
**Author:** ![Necromantix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/aeb1de/32.png) [@Necromantix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necromantix)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/5 "2003-03-13T01:22:39Z")
Well, no matter, it should add to be 17 syllables. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/6 "2003-03-13T01:38:21Z")
A Haiku or Hokku should have three lines of five, seven, and five syllables. But the passage in question is neither a Haiku nor a Hokku (indeed, the Haiku, invented in 1892, didn’t even exist in Hakuin’s lifetime); it’s two sentences of prose. Pity Hakuin; by phonetic happenstance, name confused with verse. ---
**Author:** ![mok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mok)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-hand-clap/160732/7 "2003-03-13T15:35:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John W. Kennedy \* > **it’s two sentences of prose** Indeed, it’s two sentences of **translated** prose. Syllable counts don’t usually survive across translations anyway without a lot of poetic license. Amplifying on John’s earlier Haiku comment – _ **English hates Haiku; syllables, like April ice, melt and flow away** _ (love that, by the way, John) – consider that Japanese and English don’t have the same kinds of syllables anyway. Indeed, what are considered “syllables” in Japanese (morae) have no equivalent in English and vice versa. For example, the Japanese word “haiku” has three morae, but only two syllables. In haiku, it would count for three of the 17 slots. In English, it would only count for two. There is a lot of debate on whether it is possible to truly capture haiku in English at all. Linguists get off on this kind of stuff; see for example [http://www.iyume.com/metrics/total2.html](http://www.iyume.com/metrics/total2.html) -mok