# One last question tonight. If I had a "partyboat" in INTERNATIONAL waters just.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 21, 2004, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185 "2004-04-21T06:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/21 "2004-04-21T18:13:44Z")
And, for all practical intents and purposes, you’d be jailed the moment you entered terrirtorial waters. After all, you have been running a whorehouse, a gambling den, you presumably _haven’t_ been paying as many taxes as the IRS would like, and you have been thumbing your nose at the official governments. The first time you put in to a country without severe internal problems would be the _last_ time you put in to a country, period. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/22 "2004-04-21T19:05:48Z")
In the same vein, what if you and another person just got on a non-registered vehicle, like a slab of wood, and floated a few miles out into the ocean… then you killed him. Then you returned. What happens? ---
**Author:** ![tubbytreats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@tubbytreats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tubbytreats)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/23 "2004-04-21T19:40:35Z")
These posts are getting more hillarious by the minute! I actually laughed out loud while reading this last one… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/24 "2004-04-21T19:42:47Z")
I am not qualified to discuss all the intricacies of Maritime law, but I fail to see how operating a brothel or providing illicit drugs while on the “High Seas” would subject you to banishment from US ports. After all, both prostitution and hash are legal in Holland, yet nobody is prevented from either going to holland or coming from holland. A more egregious example is the availibility of underage prostitutes in Thailand, which many American pedophiles take advantage of. They are neither prevented from returning nor prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/25 "2004-04-21T19:49:49Z")
**askeptic** , I doubt the government would just let you go if they had you in port. They’d bog you down with licensing or safety inspections or Homeland Security issues or _something_ to keep you in port and, probably, in jail. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/26 "2004-04-21T20:10:33Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > **askeptic** , I doubt the government would just let you go if they had you in port. They’d bog you down with licensing or safety inspections or Homeland Security issues or _something_ to keep you in port and, probably, in jail. Not to be obstreperous, but why would US officials care what you did outside of their jurisdiction. They have enough trouble prosecuting crimes here. Why and on what grounds would they be concerned with activities occuring beyond the soveriegn boundries of the US? US Law does not transcend US borders (Unless of course you are Noriega and piss off a Republican, despite the fact that the same republican violated US Law in the US to illegally support you as well as the Contra rebels in Nicaragua)(sorry for pontificating OT, call it an irresistable impulse) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/27 "2004-04-21T21:09:39Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > like the island of Nevis, or The Caymen Islands known for their permissive attitudes? Also, if we HAD weapons we could probably claim a remote island somewhere (maybe one of Fiji’s islands) as our HOME base. For that matter are there ANY islands North of 20 degrees South Latitude NOT claimed (or at least to the extent they would be defended) by someone? IF we had such an island we could proclaim ourselves a new Nation. I think we would start by creating a constitution which limited the ENTIRE number of laws to no more than TEN. There’s no such thing as an unclaimed land anywhere. Even “islands” which are esssentially underwater during high tides, and lost in the middle of nowhere are claimed by some country or another. The only kind of land which could be unclaimed would be an island suddendly popping up following a volcanic eruption out of any country’s territorial waters. And the nearest countries would most certainly claim it as soon as it would appear. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/28 "2004-04-21T21:11:37Z")
I forgot : Actualy, the situation of Antarctica is dubious, since though various countries claim part of it, other don’t recognize their claims. But none would recognize _your_ claims on it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/29 "2004-04-21T21:17:52Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > I think we would start by creating a constitution which limited the ENTIRE number of laws to no more than TEN. Not a problem. Law n° 2, article 7, chapter 23, sub-chapter 4, paragraph 47 (follows a 36 page-long regulation about sanitary requirments regarding food items brought on your boat/independant island). ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/30 "2004-04-21T21:21:20Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > A more egregious example is the availibility of underage prostitutes in Thailand, which many American pedophiles take advantage of. They are neither prevented from returning nor prosecuted. That was true at one time, but as sex tourism has become more widely known a number of governments have taken action. In [this](http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/france/10/20/france.trial/) example from France, a man was convicted of a child rape he committed while in Thailand, and [18 U.S.C. 2423](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2423.html) provides for U.S. prosecution of any U.S. citizen or resident who engages in sex with children overseas. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/31 "2004-04-21T21:23:31Z")
> [@Roland Deschain](#): > > Plus when you factor in basing something like Napster on board that could pay for the operation by itself. Add to that internet gambling run from the ships servers and you could afford to pay a country like Liberia (or fill the small country of your choice) so much they would authorize you to do almost anything. ! What would be the point? If you want to pay-off some country which allows a particular internet-related activity which is forbiden in the US, why don’t you simply open shop in this country rather than going through the hassle of operating it from a boat in the middle of nowhere? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/32 "2004-04-21T22:07:55Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > That was true at one time, but as sex tourism has become more widely known a number of governments have taken action. In [this](http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/france/10/20/france.trial/) example from France, a man was convicted of a child rape he committed while in Thailand, and [18 U.S.C. 2423](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2423.html) provides for U.S. prosecution of any U.S. citizen or resident who engages in sex with children overseas. Thanks for the update JohnM, I was not aware of that law. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/33 "2004-04-22T02:26:14Z")
The Master addresses, “How do I go about starting my own country?” [here](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_300.html) "Strauss describes successful new countries such as Sealand, founded in the 60s by former pirate radio operator Paddy Roy “Prince Roy” Bates on an abandoned antiaircraft platform off the coast of England. He also mentions the smallest country in existence, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta, whose realm consists of one building in Rome. So there’s hope for you would-be potentates. Strauss describes five routes to nationhood:…" ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/34 "2004-04-22T02:41:30Z")
There was a local man here who was recently procesuted under that exact statute, so the US Attorney’s offices do prosecute (at least some of) the Americans who travel overseas for underage prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/35 "2004-04-22T03:16:20Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > What would be the point? If you want to pay-off some country which allows a particular internet-related activity which is forbiden in the US, why don’t you simply open shop in this country rather than going through the hassle of operating it from a boat in the middle of nowhere? I think his point is to then have this mobile extension of that country come to a point just outside US territorial waters so as to provide easy _physical_ access of Americans to the casino/brothel/drug den side of the operation. And probably while at it set up a pirate-radio/TV station broadcasting uncensored “indecency” 24/7 in the direction of the USA. The basic realities are that you could theoretically do this, but the US would be within its rights to do what it took to prevent its citizens’ access to this activity – probably by squeezing the government of the “sponsor” country, squeezing the state with the port nearest wherever you anchored, and squeezing the American companies that did business with you. How motivated they may be to go after you depends on how much of a thorn on their side are you willing to be. If it’s just a big floating casino/brothel and there’s no situation involving Americans having access to under-18 “service providers”, and that is IT, you may not have that many problems. Throw in a legalized opium den or an unregulated file-sharing business and you’d just be asking for your customers to come home to a tax audit after each vacation, your American business partners or suppliers to lose their government contracts, and your sponsor-country’s ambassador in the US to get his car towed regularly in spite of the diplomatic plates. And you need a “sponsor” country, as declaring yourself a “sovereign ship” is a quick way for anyone to just declare you a pirate, and even the Canadian Navy has something called a torpedo. There are no permanently-above-water, inhabitable islands left unclaimed – if they’re not explicitly claimed or disputed, they’re likely within the 200-mile zone of some “real” country and they get dibs. As for artificial constructs like new-utopia, I oughta look up a cite but I believe that in recent years the UN was going to actually pass something to the effect that no, that would not fly. Which would mean under international law any extant nation-state seeking to enforce their sovereignty could just go to town on you. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/36 "2004-04-22T04:41:58Z")
[Could you live indefinitely on a boat?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=195073) might be of some interest. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/37 "2004-04-22T05:02:24Z")
I remember hearing someone talk about the potential for an old oil rig, if out far enough. Are there any in international waters? Or are all of them closer, like those in the Gulf of Mexico? ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/38 "2004-04-22T05:49:49Z")
1. I realize that most (all) islands may be claimed, but would the country “claiming” them really bother to make a fuss over someone living there (okay in THIS case they might). I once read a book called The Last Frontiers On Earth, Strange Places Where You Can Live Free by Jon Fisher (ISBN 0-915179-24-5). Under the section “Live on a deserted Island” it actually made a few suggestions (some less pleasant than others since they were in COLD waters). Here are some of the suggested islands: a. “Eiao and Hatutu which are the two Northern most islands of French Polynesia. Eiao is 6 miles long by three miles wide and rises to an elevation of 1,889 feet. It is located in the tropics at 8 degrees soulth latitude, and is covered with a tropical rain forest, but the higer elevations are somewhat cooler than the coast. At one time a Polynesian population lived there. Later the French used it as a prison island, but no one lives there now. Domestic animals were brought in during these previous occupupations, and now sheep, cattle, pigs and asses run wild on the island. Hatutu lies a few miles across a channel from Eiao and is somewhat smaller, about four miles by one mile, rising to 1,404 feet. Both of these islands lie fifty six miles NW of the populated island of Nuku Hiva, and are well off the beaten tract. It seems like it would be easy for a settler to survive on these islands eating the tropical fruit and other vegetation, hunting the animals for meats, and building with native materials. However, the French authorities probably would not allow westerners to settle on these islands. However, once a resourceful person had taken up residence on Eiao, if he didn’t want to be found, he could hide out for years in the jungles. It is the kind of rugged terrain where it would be all, but impossible for the authorities to find a person who didn’t want to be found.” (Read my post about having once had 200K in available cash advance on our credit cards ‘we had a mortgage/appraisal business’, more than once after my wife and I had fought over some issue I considered maxing that out, buying a boat for about 75K , putting my Navy/EOD training to the test and heading for Eiao! I think I could have held off a French platoon by myself) b. The Kermadce islands near New Zealand. Consist of the island Raoul and the smaller islands of Macauley, Curtis, L’Esperance Rock, and many smaller islets. The only inhabitents are about two dozen people who work at a weather station tha New Zealand maintains on Raoul. There temperature ranges from 82F to 48F with a light easterly wind. Physically, the islands have a quite pleasant, subtropical climate, with plentiful rainfall. The land is mountainous, fertile, and forested. However, there are no sheltered harbors, and boats can only land during good weather. The author notes that Pitcairn island, which has a very similar climate, also has no good anchorage, and yet Pitcairn has been populated for over 200 years (see Mutiny on the Bounty). His guess is that the New Zealand government might be persuaded to allow western immigrants to settle on one of the Kermadecs. Most likely they would hesitate only out of a concern that the settlers would get into trouble and have to be rescued by the government. He also refers to a book that I do NOT have called Uninhabited Pacific Islands by Dr. Jon Fisher which describes 80 deserted islands, telling their history and physical conditions including maps showing the exact location of the island. Another book "An Island To Myself, by Tom Neale tells how the author lived alone for three years on the island of Suvarov, an atoll in the Cook Islands. Also, Fatu Hiva, Back to Nature by Thor Heyerdahl. and finally Water Squatters, The Houseboat Lifestyle by Beverly Dubin, Capra Press, 1975. If anyone cares I can list the Sub-Antarctic Islands at a later date. The only ones that seemed at ALL reasonable were Gough Island which lies 230 miles to the SE of Tristan at 40 degrees S, 10 degrees West. It is said to have a warm, wet climate and luxuriat vegetation (no populations and a huge population of Rockhopper Penguins and large guano deposits and rises to 3,000 feet) It is claimed by Tristan, but South Africa maintains a weather station there. The other really good Sub-Antartic Island was Archipel de Kergulen. Claimed by France it lies in he South Indian Ocean at 48 to 50 degrees S, and 68 to 70 degrees East. Kerguelen consists of ovre 300 islands, the largest of which is the triangular Island of Desolation, which is one hundred miles long, with a total area of 2,600 miles. The coastline of Desolation is deeply indented with many fjords, large deep bays dotted with islets, and many peninsulas. Inland the island is cut up into numerous valleys, caves, and ridges. Mt. Ross the highest peak reaches 6,430 feet and has a permanent ice cap with glaciers flowing down. Although one third of the island is covered in ice there are numerous small rivers and lakes fed by glacial meltwater and abundant rainfall. The climate has only a small seasonal temperature variation with a summer average of around 40F and a winter average of 37F. Rain or snow falls about 300 days per year and the sky is ALWAYS at least partly overcast. Strong westerly winds prevail between 20 to 40 mph all the time with gusts up to 100 mph on windy days (which could offer good power generation opportunities). Plant life is dominated by tussock grasses, and edible Kergulen cabbage, mosses, and lichens. Off shore there are large patches of kelp. The land animals include reindeer, wild hogs, rabbits, dogs, rats and mice. Along the shore one finds numerous penguins, seals, sea birds and ducks. Large deposits of peat bog, lignite and guano are found. Attempts at rasing sheep were abandoned in the 1930’s. Now the French maintain one tiny scientific station at Port-Aux-Francais, otherwise the entire archipelago is uninhabited. Overall, I think that Desolation is my top choice for my “home base”, not as attractive as Eiao, but more out of the way and with abudant rescources to survive ( Even, Osama Bin Laden could probably hide out undetected there for a long time). I’m sure there is someplace our boat could go. We absolutely would not be using underage girls or hard drugs. The Netherlands would probably feature more decadence. If nothing else this island seems like a good place to go to escape the wife (just kidding, I couldn’t survive without her!) ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/39 "2004-04-22T05:57:35Z")
to get it wrong and end up at the wrong island. Maybe some of you out there might be interested in starting a colony of some sort? Heck, if a thousand people chipped in you could probably buy (or at least lease) the island legally. To keep things honest you might first form a NPO with a board of directors ect. Actually, some of these island might offer opportunities for legitimate industry! One of the last frontiers on Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Deschain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@Roland\_Deschain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Deschain)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185/40 "2004-04-22T05:59:42Z")
Donald Trump could fly down in a Captain Hook outfit once a month and announce that someone was FIRED at which point they would be fed to the sharks (The Donald would have diplomatic immunity of course). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-question-tonight-if-i-had-a-partyboat-in-international-waters-just/241185.md?page=3)