# One Last Time: Fug You W!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161 "2009-01-20T18:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HolyFreakingMoly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ba0ec/32.png) [@HolyFreakingMoly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HolyFreakingMoly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/61 "2009-01-21T20:04:47Z")
Right after watching Biden and Obama take their respective oaths, the single most joyous moment of yesterday was watching that chopper head off to Crawford, TX!!! Adiofuckingos Moron! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/62 "2009-01-21T20:29:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You are certainly free to call him a criminal if you want, but that’s a subjective call [Bush, Rumsfeld should be pursued for torture: UN rapporteur](http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jEs-XWCHd2efuDAyzptTyvVvoOTA) > [@](#): > > BERLIN (AFP) — The UN’s special torture rapporteur called on the US Tuesday to pursue former president George W. Bush and defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld for torture and bad treatment of Guantanamo prisoners. > > “Judicially speaking, the United States has a clear obligation” to bring proceedings against Bush and Rumsfeld, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak said, in remarks to be broadcast on Germany’s ZDF television Tuesday evening. > > He noted Washington had ratified the UN convention on torture which required “all means, particularly penal law” to be used to bring proceedings against those violating it. > > “We have all these documents that are now publicly available that prove that these methods of interrogation were intentionally ordered by Rumsfeld,” against detainees at the US prison facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Nowak said. I can’t help but recall now how the UN inspectors were right about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction, and how Bush, and all his friends, were wrong. Was that call subjective or objective? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/63 "2009-01-21T20:32:52Z")
And the UN has SUCH a great track record for going after torturers, ehe? Look at the way they went after Saddam for gassing his own people, for torture and murder. I mean some of that was some pretty strong language! I’m guessing the answer to your question there is ‘subjective’. YMMV of course. -XT ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/64 "2009-01-21T20:37:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > **You are certainly free to call him a criminal if you want, but that’s a subjective call** (and a largely biased one at that; there are far fewer on the right who view him as such) and it brings no weight whatsoever to bear upon the freedoms, pension and so forth that Bush enjoys and that **BrainGlutton** is so agitated about. As an attorney (which I’m assuming is correct since there’s been no correction since I asked) he should know that. – first bolding mine > [@](#): > > “I think that the new Barack Obama, the President Obama, is going to find it very hard to go round the world and to say that we’re now again the nation of rules of law,” Turley suggested, “if the first act he commits as president is to talk away from a confirmed war crime.” > > “Are we literally looking at a possibility,” Maddow asked, “where administration officials from this [previous] administration cannot travel abroad to the other 145 countries that have signed the torture treaty because they might get arrested?” > > “Most certainly,” Turley replied. “ **The status of George Bush is not that different from Augusto Pinochet. They’ve both been accused of running a torture program. And outside this country, there’s not this ambiguity about what to do with a war crime. … Most people abroad are going to view you not as former President George Bush, they’re going to view you as a current war criminal.** ”.. – my highlights. Video and transcript from a [Rachel Maddow’s segment on this very matter.](http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Turley_Traveling_abroad_Bush_could_be_0120.html) The 20 percenters can quibble and express their outrage all they want, fact is, TORTURE is what it is: a WAR CRIME. Will he – and his cohorts – get away with it? Possibly. Even likely as Obama has expressed his desire to “move on” on more than one occasion. But here’s betting they won’t be straying far from your borders… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/65 "2009-01-21T20:50:00Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > And the UN has SUCH a great track record for going after torturers, ehe? Yup, they should try to do better. Now would be a good time to start, don’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/66 "2009-01-21T20:55:30Z")
I’d love to see their evidence and a presentation of their case. I find it a bit ironic that NOW is the right time to start…but to be sure, if they have something solid on Bush that he has definitely done that is illegal then by all means, trot it out. I’ll make a bag of popcorn and cheer to see him dragged away in chains. I’m just a bit weary of this line of argument at this point. Personally, if Bush really HAS done something illegal according to that nebulous ‘international law’ thingy that would mean he would have broken some of OUR laws as well. And it would be a hell of a lot easier to get him within our own system than from the outside on the dubious say so of a UN flunky. Obama is President. Dems are in control. IF he’s done something illegal then we should be seeing something happening within the next year or so, ehe? I will await with bated (or baited) breath the happy outcome of such investigations… -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/67 "2009-01-21T21:05:17Z")
There are treaties, we’ve signed them, they’re therefore our law too. What’s “nebulous” about them? Or “subjective” or “biased”, **SA**? Quit kidding yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/68 "2009-01-21T21:12:18Z")
They are nebulous because their is no provision to establish precedence. They are nebulous because there is no real mechanism for enforcement. They are nebulous because saying they are arbitrarily enforced is a vast overstatement. In short it’s you who is kidding yourself. There IS no international law in any real, legal sense of the word. However, there IS US law…and if he’s broken OUR laws then there should be something that can be done about it. Again…Obama in charge. Dems in charge. Let’s see some action on this…or let’s see some STFU about it already and move on to something real. I’m good either way. Would love to see GW dragged before court, tried and sentenced to 100 years hard labor with his new friend and cell mate Bubba…who thinks GW has a purty mouff. Conversely, if nothing is going to happen I would love to see some STFU action on this subject. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/69 "2009-01-21T21:13:13Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I find it a bit ironic that NOW is the right time to start How so? One must start sometime, or the thing will never be started. You are simply wishing that it was a Democrat guilty of soiling the nation’s honor, of breaking its laws? Perhaps you should have voted for Gore. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/70 "2009-01-21T21:17:24Z")
ISTM the “leave him alone” line from the Flag Wavers’ Party stems mostly from guilt over having supported a criminal and his gang. Denying that is a way they can avoid admitting, to themselves as well as to the broader world, their own complicity. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/71 "2009-01-21T21:19:50Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] How so? One must start sometime, or the thing will never be started. [/QUOTE] The irony is in who is pushing for this…now, now! NOW!!! Basically show me the money. If now is the time to start then let’s see it. Let’s see the magical powers of the UN push this through and bring forth their case against Bush. I’m not going to exactly be holding my breath here for the UN to actually do something. > [@](#): > > You are simply wishing that it was a Democrat guilty of soiling the nation’s honor, of breaking its laws? Perhaps you should have voted for Gore. Huh? No idea where you are going with this. I didn’t vote for Gore OR Bush and am not particularly pleased by the thought of ANY US president being guilty of crimes. Gore being guilty wouldn’t be any better from my perspective than Bush being guilty. Perhaps you have mistaken me for someone else? -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/72 "2009-01-21T21:23:45Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] ISTM the “leave him alone” line from the Flag Wavers’ Party stems mostly from guilt over having supported a criminal and his gang. Denying that is a way they can avoid admitting, to themselves as well as to the broader world, their own complicity. [/QUOTE] Well, I’m a member in good standings of the Flag Wavers’ Party™ and my motto is…show me the money! Trot it out and let’s see some action. Let’s see some indictments, let’s see some supeana, let’s see some trial type stuff! I’m tired of hearing about this stuff…show me the MONEY! Or STFU about it already and move on. -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/73 "2009-01-21T21:28:01Z")
Where does breaking out the subpoenas and doing the actual formal investigation fit into your plans? You’re using the **Bricker** approach. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/74 "2009-01-21T21:29:48Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Where does breaking out the subpoenas and doing the actual formal investigation fit into your plans? [/QUOTE] Is that my job?? I already promised to bring the popcorn. > [@](#): > > You’re using the Bricker approach. Well, at least he is a real lawyer…I don’t even play one on TV. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/75 "2009-01-21T21:30:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > The irony is in who is pushing for this…now, now! NOW!!! Basically show me the money. If now is the time to start then let’s see it. Let’s see the magical powers of the UN push this through and bring forth their case against Bush. Who is it that is pushing it that you find ironic? The UN? Why should the UN suddenly have magical powers? Have they ever had magical powers in the past? Is there something wrong with a UN that _doesn’t_ have magical powers? What does magic have to do with whether Bush committed war crimes? You’re making very little sense here. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/76 "2009-01-21T21:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Who is it that is pushing it that you find ironic? The UN? [/QUOTE] The left of course. This is a left wing meme, by and large. > [@](#): > > Why should the UN suddenly have magical powers? Well, that’s the point, innniat? They DON’T have magical powers, so they have about the same chance as a snow ball in the hotter parts of hell in getting anything about Bush off the ground. And yet, hope springs eternal in the halls of the left wing that Something Will Be Done About That Criminal Bush™!! The reality of course is that the UN has no means of enforcing it’s dictates outside of countries like the US who enforce their dictates…when it pleases them to do so or when it is part of their own internal agenda. The quote you put up was pure mental masturbation of course. > [@](#): > > Is there something wrong with a UN that doesn’t have magical powers? Not if you don’t actually expect them to do anything. If you DO expect them to do something…well, yeah. It would really suck that they don’t have magical powers in that case. > [@](#): > > What does magic have to do with whether Bush committed war crimes? He used black sorcery and human sacrifice to further his demonic whims of course. Haven’t you been following along? > [@](#): > > You’re making very little sense here. To be sure…but then, I NEVER make much sense. I actually cultivate an air of senselessness. The sad thing though is it seems to have rubbed off on you. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/77 "2009-01-21T21:44:59Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > But here’s betting they won’t be straying far from your borders… Like Bush would leave the US any time he doesn’t have to anyway. Too many furriners. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/78 "2009-01-21T21:48:25Z")
I hear he would love to travel to France for some vacation time… 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/79 "2009-01-21T21:52:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > The left of course. This is a left wing meme, by and large. Should it be? Isn’t there any larger issue here than who wins the white house in 2012? If that’s what the right thinks, they’re welcome to their opinion. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161/80 "2009-01-21T21:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Should it be? [/QUOTE] Depends (they are not just for old folks). Is it real or is it a meme? If it’s real, if Bush is guilty of a crime, then it should be a real issue for everyone in the country…and perhaps in the world. If it’s a meme…well, it’s a meme. Jury is still out (heh) on that afaiac. Thus far it’s been bluster and bullshit. Let’s see some action. > [@](#): > > Isn’t there any larger issue here than who wins the white house in 2012? Well, I’d have to say that unless he screws up completely Obama is going to easily win re-election in 2012. So, I don’t think it’s that much of a concern. My guess is that who wins in 2016…THAT is going to be fairly major. > [@](#): > > If that’s what the right thinks, they’re welcome to their opinion. Either you are drinking heavily or I am. Or perhaps both. Hard to say… -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-last-time-fug-you-w/482161.md?page=5)