# One man's death turn the war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607 "2003-04-05T01:29:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/41 "2003-04-07T14:40:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Barks’ dog food \* > \*\*Since Patton died in December 1945 are you saying that Patton would have started a war with Russia on his own. I find that highly unlikely. \*\* I think if Patton had not died in 1945, he would have been elected president in 1948 or 1952, instead of Truman or Eisenhower. I think Patton as president would have done things much differently in China, Korea, Eastern Europe, and the Soviet Union. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/42 "2003-04-07T14:42:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*Later, some would speculate that had she missed she may have prevented the first World War. \*\* IIRC Annie herself made a comment to that effect…that had she ‘missed’ the world would be quite different (or maybe she considered offering the Kaiser a chance to do the trick again). Anyway Annie Oakley herself was aware of this ‘missed’ opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Barks\_dog\_food](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@Barks\_dog\_food](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barks_dog_food)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/43 "2003-04-07T14:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Declan \* > \*\*And we will never know , will we. > > I have no idea what ikes plans for him were , once ww2 was finished. The only thing tangible about him , was that he said that he could start a shooting incident with the russians ,and have it look like they started it. > > If it had , chances are the allied forces ,would have driven all the way to vladivostok , by 1947-48. > > Declan \*\* This is GQ and it is about wars that has happened, not about wars that might have been( I don’t believe that Patton would have started a war). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/44 "2003-04-07T14:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susanann \* > \*\*I think Patton as president would have done things much differently in China, Korea, Eastern Europe, and the Soviet Union. \*\* Scary thought…Patton probably would have let MacArthur nuke Korea. Then again I doubt MacArthur and Patton would have gotten along well. I don’t think Patton would have the stomach to tolerate MacArthur…_very_ different men (my vote is for Patton on my side…you can have MacArthur). ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/45 "2003-04-07T15:53:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Declan \* > \*\*Yes ,lol my bad > > And pretty cool wave motion gun on the sucker. > > Declan \*\* [Totally irrelevant but can’t let it go hijack] That would be the Argo, at least in the US release. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/46 "2003-04-09T15:34:41Z")
Tamerlane has bested me in the field of Mongolian history. Well, let’s see how well he’ll do when it’s a thread on Winsor McCay. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/47 "2003-04-09T16:29:18Z")
Roosevelts individual decision to develop the atomic bomb, ensured American victory in world war 2, regardless of how well our conventional forces, or our allies, were doing in either Europe or asia. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/48 "2003-04-09T16:59:24Z")
FDR dying made the Nuremburg trials much more likely. He was very much in favor of shooting important Nazi’s on sight, as was Churchill. His successor was largely responsible for the concept of those trials being seriously considered. While we’ll never know, I believe it likely that revenge shootings like that would have changed the way Germany developed after WWII, and that by now WWIII would have been fought and lost by all. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/49 "2003-04-09T17:20:46Z")
Someone whose death would have changed the course of history: if Catherine of Aragon had died, then Henry VIII wouldn’t have needed to divorce her, and there wouldn’t have been the English reformation, England would still be Catholic, and it would have avoided 200 years of religious war, conflict and squabbles involving England and (possibly) Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/50 "2003-04-09T17:37:41Z")
Actually, [Carlo D’Este’s examination](http://hallbiographies.com/index.php/Mode/product/AsinSearch/0060927623/name/Patton%253A%2520A%2520Genius%2520for%2520War/browse/916928/page/1) of Patton’s diaries and correspondence for the post-war period in Germany indicates a disturbing affinity for the defeated Nazis, increasing written outbursts of anti-Semitism, and repeated and quite well documented observations that Patton was considering the manufacture of an incident which would provoke war with the Soviet Union. Once incident in particular appears to have made it to Eisenhower’s attention: > [@](#): > > General Patton was dreaming of rearming a couple of Waffen SS divisions to incorporate them into his US Third Army “and lead them against the Reds”. Patton had put this plan quite seriously to General Joseph T. McNarney, deputy US military governor in Germany, who had relayed Marshall Zhukov’s complaint that the Third Army was too slow in disbanding and confining German units in its Bavarian sector. “What do you think those \*\*\*\*\*\* bolshies think?” said Patton. “We’re going to have to fight them sooner or later. Why not now while our army is intact and we can kick the Red Army back into Russia? We can do it with my Germans…” > > McNarney, petrified, reported this to his political advisor, Robert Murphy, who promptly asked Patton to come and see him. Patton was not in the least subdued. “He inquired with a gleam in his eye”, Murphy later wrote, “whether there was any chance of going on to Moscow, which he said he could reach in thirty days, instead of waiting for the Russians to attack the United States.” The outcome of this and other indiscretions was that Eisenhower relieved Patton of his command on October 2, 1945. Two months later he was fatally injured in a car crash. 11. –[source](http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/research/westernfoundation.html), citing E.H. Cookridge, Gehlen: Spy of the Century, London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1971, pp. 127-28. Whether or not Patton could have pulled off an incident dramatic enough to provoke a war with the Soviet Union is open to question, but I don’t think Patton’s wish for such a war is really in question. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/51 "2003-04-09T19:16:20Z")
Just thought of another: Epaminondas was mortally wounded at the battle of [Mantineia](http://www.fortunecity.com/underworld/straif/69/engmantineia.htm), at the very moment when the Thebans broke the Spartan lines and began to pursue. With Epaminondas’ wounding, the Theban troops instead began to withdraw from the battle. The Spartans were still rattled enough to ask for a truce. Then, as Epaminondas lay dying, he asked the Thebans to make peace with Sparta. Despite the Theban near-victory, the peace treaty effectively led to the end of Theban dominance in Greece. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607/52 "2003-04-09T20:12:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by refusal \* > Someone whose death would have changed the course of history: if Catherine of Aragon had died, then Henry VIII wouldn’t have needed to divorce her, and there wouldn’t have been the English reformation, England would still be Catholic, and it would have avoided 200 years of religious war, conflict and squabbles involving England and (possibly) Scotland. The death of Arthur, Henry’s older brother, making Henry heir to the throne, is what brought about this change in history. And since Catherine was Arthur’s widow, Henry needed a dispensation from the Pope to marry her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-mans-death-turn-the-war/166607.md?page=2)