# One million dollars needed for retirement?! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2024, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593 "2024-04-21T20:36:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/261 "2024-05-26T00:14:36Z")
@Euphonious_Polemic I’m sure you’re right on the dot. I just didn’t remember all the termninology, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/262 "2024-05-26T01:07:54Z")
I’m just planning my own retirement… Trying to get all the details down! Generally we have a better social safety net in Canada. Nice not having to worry about all the medical stuff like much of this thread is concerned with. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/263 "2024-05-26T14:36:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Nice not having to worry about all the medical stuff like much of this thread is concerned with. Pretty much why I’m not going to retire ASAP. I’ll do my job, but will keep my head down. TPTB know to not get me wrapped up in any big projects. My last big project has lasted for 20 years. I’m trying to get that replaced. That, is my job. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/264 "2024-05-26T19:29:07Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The same price increase would make your current house worth more. Interest rates are up, but that doesn’t matter if your house is paid off and you’ll have enough to buy the new one for cash. And, after a while, not knocking around in the house that reminds you of your partner might be less stressful. Quite true - but the drop in costs is not automatic, and requires a lot of action to make it happen. In theory, we could move to a condo, and pay cash (or mostly cash) with the equity in this house, but it would take months of decluttering and repairs to get the place on the market - something one of us might not have the ability or motivation to do. I would actually like us to downsize at some point, to that condo, but partly spurred by this thread, I looked at costs and our housing cost is actually quite reasonable. The sort of condo I’d like would cost about what we paid for this house 21 years ago. > [@enipla](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > Nice not having to worry about all the medical stuff like much of this thread is concerned with. > > Pretty much why I’m not going to retire ASAP. Yeah, it’s a big issue in the US. If you retire before Medicare eligibility (age 65), then you are stuck with finding interim insurance. A friend who retired last fall (at age 65) had budgeted for a year of COBRA (continuation of benefits after leaving a job; you pay the full cost plus a fee). Anyone younger would have to find coverage on the marketplace (Obamacare), or before that, pay full freight on the open market - which can be prohibitively expensive. In Canada, are benefits as a retiree any different from those as a working person? e.g. I know dental / drug coverage is not automatically covered under the provincial plans, but many employers offer such coverage as part of their benefits package. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/265 "2024-05-26T20:04:13Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > e.g. I know dental / drug coverage is not automatically covered under the provincial plans, but many employers offer such coverage as part of their benefits package. I will lose my employer covered extended medical/dental. There is a new federal dental plan in the works, ([CDCP](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan.html)) that will eventually cover everyone in Canada for basic dental. But so far the implementation has been problematic - they did not really work with the dentists through their provincial associations, so many of them are explicitly saying they will not take patients on this plan. Bugs need to be worked out. I’ll get extended medical (prescriptions, massage, chiro, other associated things that are not covered under the Medical Services Plan (MSP), as well as dental (that my dentist will accept). This extended plan will cost me and spouse about $350\month, which I’ve budgeted for. Edit: This would have been the same case if I’d retired at pretty much any age… no real difference. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/266 "2024-05-27T10:53:55Z")
> [@chela](#): > > However globally the places where the birth rate is increasing is on Africa. Where’s your preferred source for these data? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/267 "2024-05-27T11:26:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > In theory, yes, you’d save money by moving to a smaller house. But you might also need to downsize your possessions and you’d definitely need to pack everything up and then unpack it at the new location. And the rise in real estate prices might mean that the new place isn’t that much of a bargain. The whole process is a whole lot of stress, and this might be after losing your partner. > > Given all of that, I can see why some people choose to live in their home, even if it’s too big for them. My dad (age 80 retired widower) still lives in the 4 bedroom suburban house where I grew up. It’s more house than he really needs obviously, but he has a lot of friends in town and it’s nice for when my brother an I both bring our families to visit. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/268 "2024-05-27T14:04:11Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > My dad (age 80 retired widower) still lives in the 4 bedroom suburban house where I grew up. It’s more house than he really needs obviously, but he has a lot of friends in town and it’s nice for when my brother an I both bring our families to visit. That’s the justification my parents used to remain in a house that was too large for them to maintain or clean (and they couldn’t afford or weren’t willing to pay for professional help). Owning a nice condo would be about the same price (accounting for condo fees) and Dad was obsessed with owning land, couldn’t make fair comparisons (the nice condos were way, way, better than their never renovated 1960s home, he completely ignored the cost of maintaining their house, etc). He was very, very clear eyed in analyzing the finances of his employers and the non-profits for who he was a board member. But he was very, very good at doing very, very bad math to justify staying in the house. Because owning a big house meant he was a Big Man. The psychological aspects of retirement choices are too easy to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/269 "2024-05-27T14:08:22Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m also a bit gobsmacked at the monthly expenses of some of you. I’m assuming a good part of that is due to location. (My household expenses are around $1200-1400/month including rent, utilities, fuel, food) It’s absolutely due to location. Where I live, that _might_ get you a decent one-bedroom apartment in a non-fancy neighborhood. Nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/270 "2024-05-27T14:11:32Z")
I don’t think you can find even a non-decent one bedroom apartment within 20 miles of where I am (suburban Boston) for $1200-$1400. Heck I can’t even share a 2 BR apartment in an area within a mile of public transit for $1200 per person. ---
**Author:** ![JoePockets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8dc957/32.png) [@JoePockets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoePockets)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/271 "2024-05-27T14:44:19Z")
Yikes I’ve driven a truck for 48 years and after raising a family and finally owning a home payments for college for 2 children and all the expenses that came along the way I’ve accumulated 10% of a million towards retirement! So SS and small pensions my wife and I should be ok providing the GOP don’t screw up Social Security! A million dollars in the bank for a working couple is not likely in my opinion….God bless you if you can make, but it is not a norm. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/272 "2024-05-27T14:51:42Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > In theory, yes, you’d save money by moving to a smaller house. But you might also need to downsize your possessions and you’d definitely need to pack everything up and then unpack it at the new location. And the rise in real estate prices might mean that the new place isn’t that much of a bargain. The whole process is a whole lot of stress, and this might be after losing your partner. > > > > Given all of that, I can see why some people choose to live in their home, even if it’s too big for them. > > My dad (age 80 retired widower) still lives in the 4 bedroom suburban house where I grew up. It’s more house than he really needs obviously, but he has a lot of friends in town and it’s nice for when my brother an I both bring our families to visit. My parents are also in the same house in which I grew up, and have been there for approximately 55 years, with the same landline number. My father needs a wheelchair for the past few years so it’s fortunate that it’s a one-story ranch with only one very small step from the family room/garage level to the rest of the house. Lots of memories there, including for me of my brother bringing his children over to visit their uncle (me) and grandparents. My mother asks if I want to inherit the house but I really don’t, though my brother might. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/273 "2024-05-27T15:31:14Z")
Not @chela but I perceive the World Bank as reliable. > **[World Bank Open Data](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_recent_value_desc=false)** > > Free and open access to global development data Sub Saharan Africa is at 4.6 birth rate. North America and Europe comparatively at 1.6 and 1.7. Though not necessarily increasing, just staying very high. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/274 "2024-05-27T15:49:53Z")
I suppose it was incorrect to say increasing birth rates. rather birth rates in Africa are declining at a much slower rate than the rest of the world. From the article - As most of the world contends with the serious challenges to the economic growth of a shrinking workforce and how to care for and pay for aging populations, many of the most resource-limited countries in sub-Saharan Africa will be grappling with how to support the youngest, fastest-growing population on the planet in some of the most politically and economically unstable, heat-stressed, and health system-strained places on earth.”\* > **[The Lancet: Dramatic declines in global fertility rates set to transform...](https://www.healthdata.org/news-events/newsroom/news-releases/lancet-dramatic-declines-global-fertility-rates-set-transform)** > > By 2050, over three-quarters of countries will not have high enough fertility rates to sustain population size over time. This will increase to 97% of countries by 2100. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/275 "2024-05-27T16:18:59Z")
> [@chela](#): > > I suppose it was incorrect to say increasing birth rates. rather birth rates in Africa are declining at a much slower rate than the rest of the world. > **[Africa Birth Rate (1950-2026)](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/afr/africa/birth-rate)** > > Crude birth rate indicates the number of live births occurring during the year, per 1,000 population estimated at midyear. Subtracting the crude death rate from the crude birth rate provides the rate of natural increase, which is equal to the rate of... > **[World Birth Rate (1950-2026)](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/wld/world/birth-rate)** > > Crude birth rate indicates the number of live births occurring during the year, per 1,000 population estimated at midyear. Subtracting the crude death rate from the crude birth rate provides the rate of natural increase, which is equal to the rate of... Looks like they’re declining faster in Africa. > [@DSeid](#): > > Though not necessarily increasing, just staying very high. Neither increasing nor staying. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/276 "2024-05-27T16:52:16Z")
Macrotrends? The premier research platform for long term investors? Not saying their data from some branch of the UN is off but it does seem short on transparency and analysis imo ymmv. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/277 "2024-05-27T17:12:04Z")
I’d say maintaining a fertility rate 2.7 times as high as Europe’s, twice as high as the world’s, and a birth rate per thousand 1.8 times as high as the world’s, is staying high. I did misstate in my post: my link was for fertility rates. Birth rates are per thousand and decrease as populations live longer so the denominator increases, even if there is no change in fertility rates. It is fertility rates that [that _Lancelet_ article](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)00550-6/fulltext) discusses: > [@](#): > > The proportion of livebirths occurring in sub-Saharan Africa was forecast to increase to more than half of the world’s livebirths in 2100, to 41·3% (39·6–43·1) in 2050 and 54·3% (47·1–59·5) in 2100. The share of livebirths was projected to decline between 2021 and 2100 in most of the six other super-regions— Point being that most of the world is predicted to have a population decrease over time while sub Saharan Africa is going to continue to increase. Even as the impacts of climate change hit them very hard. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/278 "2024-05-27T19:26:05Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I’d say maintaining a fertility rate 2.7 times as high as Europe’s, twice as high as the world’s, and a birth rate per thousand 1.8 times as high as the world’s, is staying high. And I’d say “Though not necessarily increasing, just staying very high.” is an inaccurate way to describe a 37% drop when the global drop 1980–2021 was 38%. [![](https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2a52d3b1-7b03-4f53-b677-d80b6a80fc10/gr1.jpg) ](https://www.thelancet.com/cms/attachment/2a52d3b1-7b03-4f53-b677-d80b6a80fc10/gr1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/279 "2024-05-27T20:34:26Z")
> **Summary** > > My apologies to all for continuing this hijack of a hijack and I promise to cease here unless someone decides this is worth a thread of its own. > > @Ruken you are of course selecting a very precise portion of those curves, and I nevertheless grant you that sub Saharan Africa fertility rates are decreasing from extremely high to just very high at similar rates as globally it is going from modestly high to below replacement rates. > > In the context of the hijack the point remains that those still very high fertility rates are a major problem for the region and impending below replacement rates are a problem for many other regions. > > Another reasonable discussion of that below but really we’ve gotten a bit afield from retirement fund requirements … do you want to create a new thread? > > [Demography Is Destiny in Africa – Foreign Policy](https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/08/26/demographics-africa-sub-sahara-population-boom-growth-aging-gender-inequality-climate-change/) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593/280 "2024-05-27T21:29:40Z")
Yes, drop it now. No more on the population growth. **Moderating** I hid the last very large off-topic post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-million-dollars-needed-for-retirement/1000593.md?page=15)