# One more time: Are transsexuals really female or really still male? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433 "2005-01-06T19:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/121 "2005-01-10T16:05:57Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Carrying your _A Christmas Carol_ metaphor a little further ahead, might it be because they know that next on the agenda after “the phantom shade of penis past” is _the phantom shade of penis yet to come_?! 😃 Well, if the penis has yet to come… I mean, as _Dick_ens himself said… Goodness, this field of puns possesses such an embarassment of riches that I can scarcely proceed! ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/122 "2005-01-10T17:38:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What was it our own **Andygirl** said once? “I don’t have time to be your learning experience” or something like that. Something like that. Although damned if I don’t suck it up and go through the speech again and again anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/123 "2005-01-11T00:21:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You should have picked a different username. Scylla was a **female** monster. No. **Scylla** was a female **nymph**. Later she was turned into a multiheaded monster, and became an “it.” **Scylla’s** sexuality (if any) at that point was about as germaine as Godzilla’s. Anyway, I’m aware that the original Scylla was an originally female monster, however, that is not the only Scylla in literature, and not necessarily the one I’m named after, So, phooey! I’m a rock. On my good days anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/124 "2005-01-11T00:40:13Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m a rock. On my good days anyway. Then, shouldn’t your username be Niobe? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/125 "2005-01-11T00:51:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Then, shouldn’t your username be Niobe? Between that and a hard place, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/126 "2005-01-11T00:51:31Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Then, shouldn’t your username be Niobe? Well, either that or Art Garfunkel… ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/127 "2005-01-11T13:26:49Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > …If I woke up female, I would probably opt to stay that way if the only alternative was an imperfect operation that left me still genetically female but with a male prosthesis, and the physique of a female… > > If I was a male who felt like he was really a woman, I guess that I would probably choose to remain male rather than undergo an imperfect procedure that would only approximate my true desires. I think you’re on very unsteady ground when you try to guess what you would do IF you had a disorder you don’t actually have. Would you state with equal certainty that if you were schizophrenic, “I’d just ignore the voices and not let them bother me, since I’d know they weren’t real.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/128 "2005-01-12T02:52:19Z")
> [@Fiver](#): > > I think you’re on very unsteady ground when you try to guess what you would do IF you had a disorder you don’t actually have. Well, I guess it would depend on whether or not the disorder affected who I am at the level of personality and ego. Good point. I guess if I was in that situation maybe I wouldn’t still be me and therefore wouldn’t be able to predict what I’d do. I can’t prove it but I’m guessing I’d still be me, and nobody is more predictable to me than me, so positing that I was still me, I’d guess I’d be on firm ground as to my behavior. > [@](#): > > Would you state with equal certainty that if you were schizophrenic, “I’d just ignore the voices and not let them bother me, since I’d know they weren’t real.” Hmmmm. Good question. Let me give you an anolog situation that I have had some experience with. Particularly in my early years, and to a continuing but lesser extent now, I’ve had ongoing difficulty with dyslexia. I have difficulty proofreading and oftentimes I make foolish errors in reading, misinterpreting one word for another. I found that going head to head with the problem gave me very poor results. I could stare at a word and read the wrong word over and over and over again. I could stare at a word that I know is a common word that I know, yet not be able to put any meaning to it. It would just lock up and become an enigma. A simple word, like “thread.” I just might stare at those letters unable to resolve them into a word. It didn’t matter how hard I concentrated on that word, I wouldn’t be able to give it meaning. Brute force doesn’t work. What does work is just to read the whole sentence as best I can, and not even stop when I get hung up. Usually, I can fill in the parts I didn’t get from context. It took a long while for me to get good enough at this to read with strong facility. Oddly enough, the better I got from being able to interpolate from context the less I would find words or letters hanging me up. Now for the most part I don’t even notice the problem and I read fast. A legacy of the issue is the aforementioned lousy proofreading skills, and the rare boner when I completely misinterpret a word that I’ve derived from context. The other thing is that I’m in the habit of doublespacing when I write to give myself more room to see what I’m reading, and writing very short paragraphs. It makes it easier for me. Several people have remarked on my habit of writing paragraphs of one sentence, but nobody ever asked why I do it (which seems kind of stupid.) Anyway, enough of that digression. Back to your question. Taking a hint from how I dealt with the dyslexia, I probably wouldn’t attempt a simple denial of the voices in my head if I was a schizophrenic. Going head to head with those voices or entities seems to be a pretty difficult and doomed venture. Denying there reality would be hard, if they were there all the time and I was hearing them all the time. The tactic I think I’d try would not be to deny them but to keep telling myself that the voices in my head don’t have anything to say that can actually help, and aren’t necessarily on my side. Hopefully if I did that and worked at it long enough it would be like living in an apartment with a train track outside. Eventually you stop noticing the train because its presence doesn’t signify anything. It fades into background, though it’s always still there if you focus on it. Sheesh, I’m long-winded tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/129 "2005-01-12T11:51:18Z")
> [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > I don’t care if my wife’s chromosomes turned out to be ZZ If so, she would have a very long beard. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433/130 "2005-01-12T13:52:28Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > If so, she would have a very long beard. ::: points **Johanna** gently to the other, metaphorical use of “beard” ::: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-more-time-are-transsexuals-really-female-or-really-still-male/283433.md?page=6)