# One Night Ultimate Werewolf game **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [December 15, 2015, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500 "2015-12-15T04:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/261 "2015-12-17T22:33:53Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > So now I’m the Lone Wolf? Wow. Roles come and go so quickly here. I wonder what I really am. Johnny may be there to back you up. There’s a 1/3 chance. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/262 "2015-12-17T22:35:58Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Think of three markers in the middle of the table that I got to pick from. One was the wolf, the other two were town roles. I picked the wolf. The others were insomniac and vanilla villager (through deduction, based on snfaulkner’s most recent summary of who is/was what). Oh I get the idea behind it, but it seems stupid that the other wolf card would even be on the table to be picked from. Of course the other wolf is un picked…that is why you get to pick one of the unused at all. It seems like it nullifies any power you woould’ve had otherwise. But if that’s how it is, then that’s how it is. I just want to be sure that that’s ow it is. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/263 "2015-12-17T22:37:52Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > That makes no sense. What does it matter if Biotop recanted? If Biotop tricked you, then we would be lynching you and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference what you said after the fact. It certainly looks more like you didn’t want to tell us more because you know you are still a wolf. I hadn’t worked out what story I’d try and sell. It would have been a very hard sell, but I wanted to slow play where the other wolf was. If I accused somebody else, they would know I was lying and I’d never get thier vote. But I didn’t want to accuse anybody who waffled and might side with me. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/264 "2015-12-17T22:39:24Z")
I’m wondering if Biotop and Hooker aren’t the wolves. Biotop pretended to be the Troublemaker, and waited for Hooker before giving the reveal of the switch to me. If so, I’m still a Mason. It could work. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/265 "2015-12-17T22:39:37Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Oh I get the idea behind it, but it seems stupid that the other wolf card would even be on the table to be picked from. Of course the other wolf is un picked…that is why you get to pick one of the unused at all. It seems like it nullifies any power you woould’ve had otherwise. > > But if that’s how it is, then that’s how it is. I just want to be sure that that’s ow it is. The abilities that pick from the center (drunk, wolf, possibly seer) pick from those same tokens. The narrator can’t split out the wolf token when the wolf is picking because the narrator can be playing too. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/266 "2015-12-17T22:40:25Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I secretly hope you are voting for **Prof P.** based on nothing other than some personal vendetta you’ve seem to had against him the past few games that I’ve been in/read. 😃 I, myself, am completely unaware of this vendetta. She did go after me in one of the Cuba games, but was completely right in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/267 "2015-12-17T22:41:16Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I’m wondering if Biotop and Hooker aren’t the wolves. Biotop pretended to be the Troublemaker, and waited for Hooker before giving the reveal of the switch to me. If so, I’m still a Mason. > > It could work. Yeah, I’m still in favor of killing Inner Stickler and letting him shoot Biotop. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/268 "2015-12-17T22:43:12Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > I, myself, am completely unaware of this vendetta. She did go after me in one of the Cuba games, but was completely right in doing so. I seem to remember reading in one of the watch threads you were…and I quote “scummy scum scum”…then of course Johnny B’s game where she vig killed you…and I might be imagining other times just to feed my own narrative that makes me laugh… ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/269 "2015-12-17T22:45:24Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > The abilities that pick from the center (drunk, wolf, possibly seer) pick from those same tokens. The narrator can’t split out the wolf token when the wolf is picking because the narrator can be playing too. Fair enough. Didn’t realize narrator could play too in the tabletop game. Still would like a clarification about this game tho. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/270 "2015-12-17T22:46:49Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I seem to remember reading in one of the watch threads you were…and I quote “scummy scum scum”…then of course Johnny B’s game where she vig killed you…and I might be imagining other times just to feed my own narrative that makes me laugh… Well, that’s easy to understand. Going back over my newbie posts, I did come off as “scummy scum scum”. I just hope I’m improving. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/271 "2015-12-17T22:47:08Z")
I’m trying to compile a list of reasons to believe biotop and a list of reasons not to believe him. If someone could help with the list of reasons to believe, that would be helpful. Reasons not to believe biotop: (1) His counterclaim of troublemaker is passive. (2) He claims to have lied about his actions in response to seeing someone else (me) lie about his role’s actions\* (3) The state of the game before Biotop announced his lie had HookerChemical as one of the prime suspects as a wolf. (4) Biotop’s lack of firm confirmedness was also a topic of discussion at the time. If Inner Stickler chose one of snfaulker, Biotop and HookerChemical, that would most likely lead to a village win. (5) The circumstances of Biotops amended claim completely changes the endgame. If Biotop’s revised switch made no difference, I would be inclined to believe him. But the result completely changes who we should target. That looks like design and not ‘coincidence.’ (6) HookerChemical trusted Biotop extremely quickly. Biotop has lied already, there is little reason to think he wouldn’t lie again. (7) HookerChemical is conveniently a lone wolf. (8) And of course the role peek is… wolf. - I feel an inconsistency here. Inconsistency isn’t necessarily bad, but I still don’t like it. If Biotop was aware of the benefit of lying about his role to game information, then he should have also been aware of the benefit of letting my fake claim ride. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/272 "2015-12-17T22:58:20Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Yeah, I’m still in favor of killing Inner Stickler and letting him shoot Biotop. Assuming that’s who he is planning on hunting… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/273 "2015-12-17T23:00:55Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Assuming that’s who he is planning on hunting… Yep, but I can’t do any more than lobby a suggestion, and I’m not going to sweat reiterating my case yet again. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/274 "2015-12-17T23:21:53Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > (3) The state of the game before Biotop announced his lie had HookerChemical as one of the prime suspects as a wolf. My feeling was that at the time, we were looking toward an Inner Stickler lynch with a shortlist of me, snfaulkner, and Johnny Bravo for the hunter kill if IS was really the hunter. At the time, I thought I was the wolf and was fairly comfortable with that end game. It wasn’t a lock, but the odds weren’t bad considering my “draw.” > [@sachertorte](#): > > (6) HookerChemical trusted Biotop extremely quickly. Biotop has lied already, there is little reason to think he wouldn’t lie again. > (7) HookerChemical is conveniently a lone wolf. > (8) And of course the role peek is… wolf. I miss the first 24 hours hours and am called out for being away so long, but I wait 16 hours to reveal the implications of Biotop’s change, and I’m too quick to trust? I didn’t immediately claim wolf because I thought he might be trying to flush wolves like you in the early game, but he hasn’t recanted his claim since mine and I believe it’s legit now. I think the strongest argument that he is the troublemaker is that he made a counterclaim against your claim of troublemaker. That seems extremely risky for a wolf, given that there was an unclaimed villager and insomniac at the time. Neither of those are easily confirmed, just like troublemaker, and wouldn’t have had the issue of counterclaiming. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/275 "2015-12-17T23:43:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Yep, but I can’t do any more than lobby a suggestion, and I’m not going to sweat reiterating my case yet again. **Inner Stickler** , Enlighten us on who you wanna hunt, should we decide to kill you… (does anyone else think this seems like a really odd thing to ask somebody?) ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/276 "2015-12-18T00:23:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Yep, but I can’t do any more than lobby a suggestion, and I’m not going to sweat reiterating my case yet again. You should be off the list now. I was the only wolf and that role is now in the possession of Prof. P. The other operating theory is that Biotop and I were both wolves. In this scenario, you are not a wolf either. It’s become a stretch to say that an Inner Stickler kill makes any sense either. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/277 "2015-12-18T00:24:33Z")
Full moon comes on Christmas night. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/278 "2015-12-18T00:25:31Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > It’s become a stretch to say that an Inner Stickler kill makes any sense either. It is the **only** kill that makes sense for town, because there’s no downside so long as Inner Stickler makes a logical choice for his own vote. And the only reason he wouldn’t do that is if he were a wolf, and if he’s a wolf then it doesn’t matter anyway because we voted for him and he’s dead now. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/279 "2015-12-18T00:42:43Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I miss the first 24 hours hours and am called out for being away so long, but I wait 16 hours to reveal the implications of Biotop’s change, and I’m too quick to trust? I didn’t immediately claim wolf because I thought he might be trying to flush wolves like you in the early game, but he hasn’t recanted his claim since mine and I believe it’s legit now. > > I think the strongest argument that he is the troublemaker is that he made a counterclaim against your claim of troublemaker. That seems extremely risky for a wolf, given that there was an unclaimed villager and insomniac at the time. Neither of those are easily confirmed, just like troublemaker, and wouldn’t have had the issue of counterclaiming. It’s not the time you took but the posting you made. I think if you were really a singleton wolf you would have at least stuck to your initial claim with an actual post. Waiting and saying nothing is meaningless. Troublemaker isn’t a hard claim for a wolf to defend. I agree that the counter is a good defense. But the statements by prof p mitigate that somewhat. I ask the confirmed town. Did you have an inkling about what prof p was hinting at? It was obvious to me. But I knew what was what already. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500/280 "2015-12-18T01:16:21Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > It’s not the time you took but the posting you made. I think if you were really a singleton wolf you would have at least stuck to your initial claim with an actual post. Waiting and saying nothing is meaningless. Like this? > [@HookerChemical](#): > > So, why do we believe you this time, Biotop? It probably doesn’t make a difference if the plan is to lynch IS and let him target his suspected wolf if he’s really the hunter, but it might help IS out. I was cautious about committing to my claim because I suspected Biotop was out to bait me. The posts overnight gave me enough comfort to claim. It was hardly a slam-dunk, but if it was legit, I would lose by not claiming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-night-ultimate-werewolf-game/740500.md?page=15)