Stumbled upon this article while doing some research:
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddustxcruelty.htm
It has a good general discussion of animal cruelty law in Texas, though it does not address much of what has been discussed here.
I think a good chunk of this is one’s basic outlook on life towards animals in general. My father grew up on a farm. I have noticed that throughout all of the time I have known him, he has had no problem with the killing of dogs or any other animal. I have not actually seen him do it, but I am certain that he has shot dogs numerous times.
It’s not because he has some sort of innate hatred for dogs or other animals. Instead, he grew up on a farm, and he has never anthropomorphized animals. He likes dogs, has affection for them, but when they threaten people at all, or when they get out of line, he has no problem giving them a smack. Too much threat, or if there are too many dogs, then he would have no problem shooting one.
To me, this is the far more “normal” way to look at animals for the bulk of the world. I think that as we have become more of a city dwelling and rich society, we have had a greater luxury for losing touch with the natural world and thinking that dogs are comparable to humans. I understand why people think that way, I just happen to disagree with it. I occassionally find myself thinking that way, but I attempt to fight it as a soft (and stupid) luxury that really does not make a great deal of sense.
In the end, on this particular subject, I agree with the side that states that the bulk of the problem here was with the dog owner who let her dog run on someone else property, even if “inadvertently”. I also have my doubts as to the accuracy of the dog owners story (or would at least say that things often appear to look different to the different parties involved), but I suppose that is a separate question, and the question should be answered as the facts are given.
Well SlyFrog as someone who grew up in the country myself (see my earlier post on the subject), I disagree with your assessment. It was not the norm in my corner of rural Georgia to draw a bead on every collared dog that crossed onto our property.
We raised cattle, and were vigilant regarding feral packs of dogs. But a single collared dog crossing onto our property was not viewed as a threat.
I also don’t agree that deciding not to harm an animal necessarily entails anthropomorphizing it. I can feel empathy for an animal without imagining it to be on a par with humans.
Where did I say that anyone drew a bead on every collared dog they saw? I don’t recall saying that he and his buddies would go out and blow away people’s pet poodles for the fun of it, but that reality might not fit with what you are looking for here, so go ahead and assume it if you want to.
You know Spoke, on thinking about my response, I think I was more assholish than you deserved. I do think that what you wrote was somewhat insulting, as you took what I wrote and fundamentally misconstrued what was said. But I don’t think you warranted my original response.
Let me just say that I think you fundamentally missed my point.
there is no excuse for cruelty.
i don’t purport to know the laws, but it’s irrelevant. the dog wasn’t harming anyone or destroying property, and the owners were with the dog. he may have been in his rights, but he’s also a fucking dick.
people come up with some out-there what-ifs, but the guy just shot the dog because he felt like it. sure, you can say “hey, what if his prized birdseed collection was out in the back yard dryong out after his house flooded and a bald eagle, california condor, and a canada goose with the last long-lost dodo on its back happened to fly overhead?”
but that didn’t happen.
i don’t know, if he shot my dog i might have to accidentally throw a brick through the windshield of that fucking camaro he drives.
oh, and cartoonuniverse, or whatever your name is, maybe dogs can smell your globalizing.
No offense intended SlyFrog (and none taken). I’m sorry if my last post sounded insulting.
I actually agree with your point that urban people and country people view animals in a fundamentally different way. (Hence the increase in vegetarianism over the past few years.) Call it the Disney effect.
I just don’t think that comes into play in the situation presented by the OP.
-Shrug- Tough, when you can’t handle the truth. Not really my problem, either. When confronted with multiple instances of dog attacks, dog lovers are left…
… kind of empty-handed in the face of the evidenc. Yeah, I’ve been sharing the story for 5 years. Does it make it untrue?
Um , no.
“Evidence” of what, exactly? That dogs sometimes attack people? Did anyone not know that?
The question on the table is whether it is reasonable to grab for your gun just because an old lab meanders onto your property.
And the answer is still “no.”
(Cartooniverse, you seem to have a phobia. Am I wrong about this?)
And every time dog lovers confront you with multiple stories of dogs who have been excellent companions, you blatantly ignore it.
I don’t know what I said to confuse you but Nick has NEVER been a problem for any neighbor. I know that people can be two faced but I have never received anything from my neighbors but appreciation for how well behaved our dogs are. This mans reason for shooting him has nothing to do with Nick.
I could comprehend the mans actions much better if this had been even close to the way it went down. Nick was sniffing the ground not 5 to 10 yards away from me. Nick nor I even saw the guy. And it was immediate. Within seconds of stepping in this guys grass (well it was more underbrush than grass).
People that get upset about a dog or even a dogs poop in their yard, either have never lived in the country or have a really distorted, and IMHO unhealthy* sense of reality. Let me go through some things that are an unavoidable part of country livin’.
strange dog feces in my yard (the dog being strange, not the feces. Although sometimes…)
the puppy next door coming over and digging up my freshly planted azaleas
not being able to put my trash out until minutes before the trash guy comes
dogs being dumped on a weekly basis and having to chase them away from trying to eat my dogs expensive food.
having to occasionally shoot to kill habitually vicious strays
neighbors that abandon the dogs they don’t want anymore which then I have to chase away from trying to eat my dogs expensive food. Then they get another puppy.
above abandon dog having 9 puppies under the ramp to our shed. Now I feel responsible for the puppies and the momma which all have mange and preceded to give it to my dogs.
the puppy next door chewing up my sons $40 bike helmet
these are just a few…
Now I will share some things that are NOT acceptable parts of country livin’
a neighbors dog being dangerous. ever.
a neighbor causing substantial harm to another neighbors dog with no warning and/or for no rational reason.
Sevanstopol > This is what I’ve been thinking all along. If it comes down to me having to go after him I don’t think animal cruelty laws would help much. I think it would be “The recklessness discharge of a firearm in the vicinity of 2 people, one of whom was an infant” that gets him.
Cmurdough > You are so wrong! Get your facts straight! Nick is a yellow lab! 
This truly would be a great debate. I view animals so differently than you or your father.
There is nothing I can say to make you believe me. But if the shooter felt that what he did was legally right, why didn’t he stick around? If he felt what he did was morally right, why would he offer to pay for the vet bills?
Very well said. Thank you.
I don’t know what I said to confuse you but Nick has NEVER been a problem for any neighbor. I know that people can be two faced but I have never received anything from my neighbors but appreciation for how well behaved our dogs are. This mans reason for shooting him has nothing to do with Nick.
I could comprehend the mans actions much better if this had been even close to the way it went down. Nick was sniffing the ground not 5 to 10 yards away from me. Nick nor I even saw the guy. And it was immediate. Within seconds of stepping in this guys grass (well it was more underbrush than grass).
People that get upset about a dog or even a dogs poop in their yard, either have never lived in the country or have a really distorted, and IMHO unhealthy* sense of reality. Let me go through some things that are an unavoidable part of country livin’.
strange dog feces in my yard (the dog being strange, not the feces. Although sometimes…)
the puppy next door coming over and digging up my freshly planted azaleas
not being able to put my trash out until minutes before the trash guy comes
dogs being dumped on a weekly basis and having to chase them away from trying to eat my dogs expensive food.
having to occasionally shoot to kill habitually vicious strays
neighbors that abandon the dogs they don’t want anymore which then I have to chase away from trying to eat my dogs expensive food. Then they get another puppy.
above abandon dog having 9 puppies under the ramp to our shed. Now I feel responsible for the puppies and the momma which all have mange and preceded to give it to my dogs.
the puppy next door chewing up my sons $40 bike helmet
these are just a few…
Now I will share some things that are NOT acceptable parts of country livin’
a neighbors dog being dangerous. ever.
a neighbor causing substantial harm to another neighbors dog with no warning and/or for no rational reason.
Sevanstopol > This is what I’ve been thinking all along. If it comes down to me having to go after him I don’t think animal cruelty laws would help much. I think it would be “The recklessness discharge of a firearm in the vicinity of 2 people, one of whom was an infant” that gets him.
Cmurdough > You are so wrong! Get your facts straight! Nick is a yellow lab!
This truly would be a great debate. I view animals so differently than you or your father.
There is nothing I can say to make you believe me. But if the shooter felt that what he did was legally right, why didn’t he stick around? If he felt what he did was morally right, why would he offer to pay for the vet bills?
Very well said. Thank you.
*I say unhealthy because one would work themselves up to quite a nasty ball of ulcers.
All of the things you listed are most definately not an unavoidable part of country living, at least where I grew up. They are things that admittedly would be allowed to occur a few times. Thereafter, the country dwellers I grew up with would grow irritated and either: (i) if you are lucky, come over and nicely inform you that if your dog didn’t knock it off, there would be problems (meaning turned into the police if you were very lucky, otherwise meaning shot); or (ii) shoot your dog.
Perhaps because he believed he was morally right, and did not necessarily care whether he was legally right?
So what happened? Any charges filed against OP for having the dog running loose out of her control or for the neighbor shooting it when it shouldn’t have been on his property?
Missed on that last sentence. He may have fully believed he was morally right, but not sure about the legal part, and is simply attempting to placate you to avoid trouble. Much like people often make court settlements where they believe they were in the right, but don’t want to take the chance that the law won’t agree.
Fair enough. No disputing that there are a lot of dog lovers out there who don’t have a single story regarding their pet attacking someone.
Surely not fair to ignore them- but then again, I didn’t realize that it was incumbent upon a Doper holding a certain point of view to quote every single Doper who holds an opposing point of view in their posts, just to " not ignore them ".
For those of you who think I’ve never petted a dog, you are wrong. I have. It’s usually a very frightening experience for me ( and yeah yeah, save trotting out the intelligensia regarding how dogs can literally smell fear on humans. I’ve had quite the education in that regard, courtesy of both animals, and the Animal Medical Center of NYC ). However, I will reach for a dog once I ask if it’s safe to do so, by asking a human being type- and only if it’s really noodling around for affection. I’m very careful with movements, with where I am in height relation to a dog, and with where I touch a dog. I ask the owner. But I have to admit honestly, I have petted plenty of dogs.
That’s as honest as the rest of what I have shared in here.
For those of you who still insist a dog is a baby, I ask a simple question. When your husband inadvertently backs the car over the pug******* and kills it instantly, do you have your husband murdered as a result?
When your dog mauls your child badly, or the child of another, do you have the dog put down?
To equate any animal with the life value of a human being seriously puts into doubt how much value you place on human life. Yourdogisyourbabyyourbabyisyourdog.
God help your baby.
******* this happened to a close friend in Atlanta. Her husband backed over their pug, killing it instantly. He drives a huge tall Explorer, and didn’t have any idea the dog was out, no less near his car. Lest those of you who are enjoying calling me a liar decide this is ficticious as well…
Contrapuntal wrote
What part didn’t you understand?
Some of these are most certainly unavoidable. The first one listed for instance. But there are also those that would lead to big problems if the owner didn’t do something to prevent it from happening again. My point is, these type of things should be expected to happen **from time to time ** if one lives in the country. Getting your dog shot, for anything other than being dangerous, is NOT something one is expected to put up with.
There is nothing under the law with which I could be charged and he denies shooting Nick.
I alerted some neighbors whose dogs and/or cats have come up missing. So needless to say we will keep an eye out for any evidence that he is making a habit out of this pastime.
Really. That seems odd. My county created a new job to deal with irresponsible people who let their dogs roam in un-incorporated areas. There unfortunately weren’t enough good, decent people like the guy that shot your dog to take care the dog problem.