# One of Saddam henchman's defense lawyers kidnapped and killed. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247 "2005-10-21T13:21:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/1 "2005-10-21T13:21:15Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/21/iraq.main/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/21/iraq.main/index.html) Who is behind the kidnapping and murder? What do they hope to accomplish by this? How secure is Baghdad, anyway? I am deeply puzzled and wonder if GDenizens can help me. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/2 "2005-10-21T13:38:38Z")
[Crime as lethal as war in Baghdad](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2005/0320crime.htm) > [@](#): > > It’s been more than a month since Hassan Hadi watched as his co-workers were executed one by one at the Happiness Bakery, and he can’t stop replaying the moment when fate spared him. In a small apartment just a block from the scene of the slaughter, a relative of one of the victims tucks a pistol into his waistband and slides a dull green grenade into his coat pocket as he ponders revenge. > > And in the gloomy dissecting hall of Baghdad’s central morgue, a doctor who examined the bakery victims laughs weakly to himself as still more bodies arrive at the crowded facility. “The cases we are getting are unbelievable,” Dr. Taha Qassim says. “Huge crimes, assassinations, beheadings. Why, only today I dissected three beheaded bodies. We will probably break the record for beheaded cadavers in any forensic department in the world.” > > As Iraq’s newly elected leaders cobble together the foundation of a fledgling democracy, a killing epidemic has taken hold of this troubled nation. Ministry of Health statistics show that record numbers of Iraqi civilians are coming to violent ends, particularly here in the capital. Assassinations and bombings have garnered worldwide attention. But Iraqi officials say violence unrelated to the insurgency is growing, and Iraqis are more likely to die at the hands — or in the cross-fire — of kidnappers, carjackers and angry neighbors than in car bombings. > > In some cases, authorities say, the motives are so opaque that they cannot tell whether they are investigating a crime disguised as an act of war or a political assassination masquerading as a violent business dispute. In Baghdad alone, officials at the central morgue counted 8,035 deaths by unnatural causes in 2004, up from 6,012 the previous year, when the U.S. invaded Iraq. In 2002, the final year of Saddam Hussein’s regime, the morgue examined about 1,800 bodies. Of the deaths occurring now, 60% are caused by gunshot wounds, officials say, and most are unrelated to the insurgency. Twenty to 30 bodies arrive at the morgue every day, and the victims are overwhelmingly male. > [@](#): > > Neither the United States’ military nor its embassy claims to track or tabulate civilian deaths in Iraq. In addition to the morgue statistics, which cover only Baghdad, the Ministry of Health reported that 5,158 Iraqi civilians had died as a result of military and insurgent activity across the country during the last six months of 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/3 "2005-10-21T15:05:41Z")
Since he was defending a former Baathist chief judge notorious for his harshness against Shiites, and since a group of masked gunmen stormed his office, I suspect it was Shiite militants who don’t grasp - or care at all about - the distinction between client and lawyer. Not good news for those trying to build a new Iraq based on freedom and the rule of law. Not good at all. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/4 "2005-10-21T16:14:17Z")
I have never been a supporter of this war or this administration but this: > [@](#): > > In Baghdad alone, officials at the central morgue counted 8,035 deaths by unnatural causes in 2004, up from 6,012 the previous year, when the U.S. invaded Iraq. In 2002, the final year of Saddam Hussein’s regime, the morgue examined about 1,800 bodies. has got to be. . . wrong. There are 6 times as many murders since the Butcher of Baghdad was disposed? Or maybe the scores of people Saddam killed were not counted in the morgue. Or is it that he didn’t kill people in Baghdad. Seriously, that can’t be right, can it? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/5 "2005-10-21T16:42:05Z")
> [@William V.](#): > > I suspect it was Shiite militants who don’t grasp - or care at all about - the distinction between client and lawyer. That was my first thought as well. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/6 "2005-10-21T16:52:32Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I have never been a supporter of this war or this administration but this: > > has got to be. . . wrong. There are 6 times as many murders since the Butcher of Baghdad was disposed? Or maybe the scores of people Saddam killed were not counted in the morgue. Or is it that he didn’t kill people in Baghdad. > Seriously, that can’t be right, can it? Why do you find it strange? People have been put under severe pressure due to this war. Power, water, food and drugs all are sparse. Religious differences are to the fore. There is a power vacuum on the street and people are vying for position. In Saddam’s day the people had a jackboot of oppression on them and were pretty much kept in check by fear of repercussions. This war has caused untold suffering to the people of Iraq and not just from the obvious route of bombs, troops and suicide bombers. Hopefully at some stage in the future this will start to calm down but it’s not going to be soon no matter what you may be told by ‘positive’ stories on Fox news. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/7 "2005-10-21T17:11:37Z")
I don’t watch FOX news. But I thought our troops were in control of Baghdad, if no where else and I, apparently naively, thought that at least the scores of people being killed by the Madman of Baghdad had abated. Well, I guess he stopped but— Holy Cow! Now there are _six times as many senseless murders_! Now I really have to wonder-- what in the fuck all are we _doing_ over there? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/8 "2005-10-21T18:00:23Z")
**Biggirl** : As I understand it, the best estimates of how many people Saddam had killed over the last few years of his rule are not that high, particularly in comparison to the excess deaths caused by the U.S. invasion. When people quote these very high figures for the number that Saddam killed, they don’t tell you that most of those deaths occurred a long time earlier…certainly before we had the no-fly zone to protect the kurds…and many even before the time when Saddam was our enemy and during the time when Rumfeld was smiling and shaking his hand. I also think the figures often include some if not all of the people killed during the gruesome Iraq-Iran war. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-saddam-henchmans-defense-lawyers-kidnapped-and-killed-why/327247/9 "2005-10-21T18:11:05Z")
> [@Biggirl](#): > > I have never been a supporter of this war or this administration but this: > > has got to be. . . wrong. There are 6 times as many murders since the Butcher of Baghdad was disposed? Or maybe the scores of people Saddam killed were not counted in the morgue. Or is it that he didn’t kill people in Baghdad. > Seriously, that can’t be right, can it? Most of Saddam’s victims ended up in unmarked mass graves, not the morgue.