# One of the last Shakers has died **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 4, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312 "2017-01-04T15:49:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/1 "2017-01-04T15:49:21Z")
> **[One of last Shakers in Maine dies](https://www.pressherald.com/2017/01/02/one-of-last-shakers-in-maine-dies/)** > > Sister Frances Carr, 89, passed away Monday after a brief battle with cancer, says the Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village in New Gloucester. Sabbathday Lake is the only still active Shaker community in the US. There are now only two surviving members. I have been to the Shaker village a couple of times, and it is a beautiful place. It would be a real shame to see this historical community die out. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/2 "2017-01-04T15:53:31Z")
Celibacy is hard on a community’s continuity. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/3 "2017-01-04T16:04:59Z")
I’m all shaken up by this news. 😃 Seriously, I thought they’d all died out at least 75 years ago. Their handmade furniture dates back to the 19th century. I’ve always wanted a Shaker table and chairs but the real items are very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/4 "2017-01-04T16:05:00Z")
They don’t want converts, they DO require celibacy… if the community DID continue, it wouldn’t be historically accurate. They’ve had nearly 200 years to decide to alter their religious requirements, and if they can’t or won’t for whatever reason, then it’s their decision to die out. Maybe there will be a historic society that recreates their lifestyle like at Colonial Williamsburg, but I kindof doubt it. It’s a shame, but it’s what their belief system resulted in. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/5 "2017-01-04T16:10:56Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Celibacy is hard on a community’s continuity. Even worse was the change in adoption laws – that’s what doomed the Shakers. They had been perpetuating their religious community by adopting new members. Circa 1960 laws against adoption by religious groups changed all that. But I’m confused – I thought I had heard a few years ago that the community had grown because they had new converts. Evidently I was mistaken. > [@](#): > > In 1957, after “months of prayer”, Eldresses Gertrude, Emma, and Ida, the leaders of the United Society of Believers and who were based out of Canterbury, voted to close the Shaker Covenant, the document which all new members need to sign to become members of the Shakers.[26] In 1988, speaking about the three men and women in their 20s and 30s who had joined the Shakers and were living in the Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village, Eldress Bertha Lindsay stated, “To become a Shaker you have to sign a legal document taking the necessary vows and that document, the official covenant, is locked up in our safe. Membership is closed forever.”[26] > **[Shakers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers)** > > Other members > The United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing, more commonly known as the Shakers, are a millenarian restorationist Christian sect founded c. 1747 in England and then organized in the United States in the 1780s. They were initially known as "Shaking Quakers" because of their ecstatic behavior during worship services. > Espousing egalitarian ideals, women took on spiritual leadership roles alongside men, including founding leaders such as Jane Wardley, Ann Lee, and ... So Shakerism is dying out as a result of a conscious decision, not because of celibacy. They could have extended the life of the faith with converts, and I have no doubt they could have gotten them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/6 "2017-01-04T16:30:39Z")
What is happening to their property when the last member of a community dies? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/7 "2017-01-04T16:54:24Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > What is happening to their property when the last member of a community dies? DIBS! ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/8 "2017-01-04T17:05:51Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > What is happening to their property when the last member of a community dies? My ex-inlaws have a farm down the road from [Shaker Village](http://www.shakers.org/) in Canterbury, NH. It hasn’t had any living members for many years but it is run by a historical preservation society and is thriving as a tourist attraction. I assume Sabbathday Lake will continue to operate the same way. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/9 "2017-01-04T18:02:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > My ex-inlaws have a farm down the road from [Shaker Village](http://www.shakers.org/) in Canterbury, NH. It hasn’t had any living members for many years but it is run by a historical preservation society and is thriving as a tourist attraction. I assume Sabbathday Lake will continue to operate the same way. The Wikipedia article on the community states that this is what the Shakers had planned for it. > [@](#): > > The 1,643 acres (665 ha) of land owned by the Shakers in both Cumberland County and Androscoggin County include Sabbathday Lake which is 340 acres (140 ha) with 5,000 feet (1,500 m) of undeveloped shoreline with a beach that is open to the public and the 150 acres (61 ha) Shaker Bog.[2] Other dismantled Shaker villages were converted into housing lots or prisons. In order to avoid this fate at Sabbathday Lake the Shakers took some preventive measures in 2001.[2] > > Preservation and conservation easements were sold to Maine Preservation and the New England Forestry Foundation. The two groups with the help of eight other public and non-profit agencies are working to cover cost of the easements. The village and surrounding farmland and forests will be protected from development. Brother Arnold Hadd was quoted by the Boston Globe in 2006. “We can’t put up a Wal-Mart. Or a housing development. The land always has to remain for agricultural and forest purposes.”[2] > > The selling of future development rights has enabled the Shakers to restore and maintain the structures of the village. They also make money by leasing 29 cottage lots on Sabbathday Lake, leasing 1,000 acres (400 ha) of forests, 30 acres (12 ha) of farmland and orchards and a gravel pit.[2] Other income sources include production of fancy goods, basket making, weaving, printing, and the manufacturing of some small woodenware.[3] Their operation is run with the help of six year-round employees and six seasonal employees.[2] > **[Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbathday_Lake_Shaker_Village)** > > Other members > Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village is a Shaker village near New Gloucester and Poland, Maine, in the United States. It is the last active Shaker community, with two members as of 2020\[update\]. With a new member, it had expanded to three members by 2021. The community was established in either 1782, 1783, or 1793, at the height of the Shaker movement in the United States. The Sabbathday Lake meetinghouse was built in 1794. The entire property was declared a National Historic Landmark ... There are several Shaker community structures still standing, and still operated as museums by organizations. You can visit, tour the buildings, and sometimes get meals there. Besides Sabbathday Lake, Maine and the Canterbury, NH ones mentioned, there’s one at Enfield NH and one at Hancock, MA. There are shaker buildings at Fruitland Museum in Harvard MA. There was a Shaker Village at Enfield, CT, but I don’t think that operates, or even stands. ---
**Author:** ![mind\_the\_gap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@mind\_the\_gap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mind_the_gap)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/10 "2017-01-04T21:15:14Z")
So…Shaking’s all over?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/11 "2017-01-04T22:10:23Z")
A quick Google search shows there are plenty of movers left, though. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Elk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Anne\_Elk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Elk)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/12 "2017-01-05T11:06:24Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > A quick Google search shows there are plenty of movers left, though. oof :smack: ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/13 "2017-01-05T14:01:32Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The Wikipedia article on the community states that this is what the Shakers had planned for it. > > [Sabbathday Lake Shaker Village - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbathday_Lake_Shaker_Village) > There are several Shaker community structures still standing, and still operated as museums by organizations. You can visit, tour the buildings, and sometimes get meals there. Besides Sabbathday Lake, Maine and the Canterbury, NH ones mentioned, there’s one at Enfield NH and one at Hancock, MA. There are shaker buildings at Fruitland Museum in Harvard MA. There was a Shaker Village at Enfield, CT, but I don’t think that operates, or even stands. And the first one in America in Colonie, NY. Well-preserved overall and a decent little museum. The people operating it will have other events there from time to time. It was very forward-thinking of the Shakers to settle so close to the Albany airport. ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/14 "2017-01-06T01:42:06Z")
There are Shaker Villages in Pleasant Hill, Kentucky (just south of Lexington), and South Union (near Bowling Green, KY). I’ve been to both of them. Both are restored today to represent life as it was in the 1840s or so. The South Union one also depicted what was life for the Shakers after their Heyday, and what became of the property before it was decided to use it to honor/remember the Shakers. South Union was founded in 1807, and thrived until more or less the time of the Civil War. Though they remained neutral, life in Kentucky was very hard for anyone who had money or property that was useful for Civil War Soldiers (and remaining neutral just pisses everyone else off). Plus, the disruption that the war caused upset the ability of the Shakers to earn money. Then post-Civil War, industrialization had begun. And this was a major blow to the Shakers. The Shakers thrived in the era in which most people were farmers, and life on a farm was often isolating back breaking work. The Shakers worked hard, but they did so as part of a community, and they did not lack for companionship. (Although privacy was in short supply, even apart from the celibacy thing). As the world changed and fewer people farmed, there were more options for people looking for companionship and entertainment and not to be alone raising one’s children after the death of a spouse. By 1922, the number of Shakers had shrunk to the point that they sold off the property, gave a chunk to each remaining member, (and I think some of them went into the World, but some may have joined other groups of Shakers, I’m not sure). ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/15 "2017-01-06T02:30:31Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There are several Shaker community structures still standing, and still operated as museums by organizations. You can visit, tour the buildings, and sometimes get meals there. Besides Sabbathday Lake, Maine and the Canterbury, NH ones mentioned, there’s one at Enfield NH and one at Hancock, MA. There are shaker buildings at Fruitland Museum in Harvard MA. There was a Shaker Village at Enfield, CT, but I don’t think that operates, or even stands. [And in Kentucky](https://shakervillageky.org/) - we were just there a few weeks ago. It was pretty empty in late November, but apparently it’s packed in the summer. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/16 "2017-01-06T04:55:31Z")
We have an [entire town](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker_Heights,_Ohio) full of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/17 "2017-01-06T05:28:12Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > We have an [entire town](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaker_Heights,_Ohio) full of 'em. That is a nice town but I don’t think those are real Shakers anymore. The tip-off is the large size, schools and families. Real Shakers were like a combination of the Amish and Quakers with superior furniture making techniques, beautiful and meticulously maintained grounds like a smaller college campus, sex egalitarianism and a prohibition against almost any vice including sex or even intersex relationships. Their villages are gorgeous but they should have realized that you can’t maintain what is essentially a religious commune through adoptions only. It worked for a surprisingly long time but not today. Still, their building skills were very impressive and the simple styles of furniture that they invented are beautiful and very much in demand. I want to get a full set of it but the faithful recreations are extremely expensive. The only piece that I have now is a simple box with dovetailed joints and a carefully fitted lid that I put mail in but it is a work of art on its own. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/18 "2017-01-06T06:46:30Z")
I don’t know anything about their theology but I wonder if they believed that the second coming was happening soon and that they therefore wouldn’t need to maintain their population. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/19 "2017-01-06T12:40:22Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Celibacy is hard on a community’s continuity. Yeah. They’re certainly not a religion that was planning to exist forever. It reminds me of Bill Hicks [“People Who Hate People Party”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57VSHcXJxWY) (YouTube, :32 seconds). A similarly doomed idea. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312/20 "2017-01-06T13:35:13Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Yeah. They’re certainly not a religion that was planning to exist forever. It reminds me of Bill Hicks [“People Who Hate People Party”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57VSHcXJxWY) (YouTube, :32 seconds). A similarly doomed idea. as I observe above, Shakers perpetuated their creed through conversion and adoption. Being celibate makes it more challenging to keep your religion going, but not impossible. Shakerism was heavily wounded by changes in the adoption laws, preventing them from getting kids into the community that way; as noted above, they made a conscious decision not to accept converts. The Shakers could have kept going, but they chose not to. If celibacy was the problem with Shaker philosophy, they would not have lasted more than one generation. They kept going for over 200 years. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/one-of-the-last-shakers-has-died/776312.md?page=2)